- Aug. 1991 - June 1992 : recording sessions for a soundtrack+movie project written by 2Pac but rapped by The Kidz, Yonnie and friends. It is said Interscope was not interested in the project.
- Jan. 92 - Nov. 92 : recording sessions for a second solo album after the first idea of a 2Pacalypse II with mostly leftovers and follow ups from the first album was scrapped. A first demo of the album titled Troublesome 21 was rejected by Interscope, it finally turned up into Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z.
- March 1992 - August 1992 : recording sessions for a Wicked & The Mouse project titled State of Emergency, mainly produced by Truman Jefferson. There was a fire exchange a concert in Marin City and a kid was killed by a dead bullet ; it seems that the group had some troubles because of that...
- Sources : handwritten tracklists, interviews.
### WORK IN PROGRESS. The only "Christmas Bootleg" compilation of leftovers includes mostly Troublesome 21 tracks, so we chose to follow the "Point The Finga (Strugglin')" tracklist, which we completed with leftover tracks from Troublesome 21 and Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z.. For Ghetto Gospel,
we followed the "Nuthin' Gold" tracklist for The Kidz part and a mix of "The G'z" and "32 Bottles 2 Ghetto Heaven" tracklists for
the second part. ###
Ghetto Gospel & More... - Listen in YT
DISC ONE : Christmas Bootleg Album
- Black Starry Night (Intro)
- Let Them Thangs Go
- Point The Finga (Original Mix) - snippet
- Black Cotton feat. Mouse Man
- Ghetto Gospel (Christmas Version) feat. Jesse The Kid - acapella, snippet, remake
- 16 On Death Row (Rough Mix)
- Love Ya Future - instrumental snippet
- Flex feat. Thoro Headz
- Ghosts
feat. Mouse Man- whizz og vibe/amarog1 og vibe - Don't Call Me, Bitch (Lars DAT Mix) feat. Shock G
- Guess Who's Back (Original Mix) - snippet
- The Hell Raiser - corrected speed
- Strugglin' (Original Mix)
feat. Live Squad- snippet - Holler If Ya Hear Me (New York Rough Mix)
- Po' Nigga Blues
- When I Get Free (Soulja's Outro)
Bonus Tracks - Trapped '92
- If My Homie Calls (Live at MTV Raps) feat. Stretch & Money B
- Producer - Big D The Impossible (4, 5, 8, 15, 18), DJ Daryl (1, 2, 6, 15) Lay Law (14, 16), Stretch & Live Squad (3, 10, 12, 13), Majesty (8), DJ Pooh (9), Akshun & Special Ed (11?), Shock G (7, 17)
DISC TWO : Ghetto Gospel
Part 1 : Tha Kidz (aka the Havenotz) - Nuthin' Gold E.P.
- Lovely Daze - snippet, lyrics, cassette picture
The Streetz Got Ya Babiez- lyrics, cassette pictureBedtyme Storiez- cassette picture, fake instru snippet- Ghetto Gospel (Kidz Version) - reference track
Leave Us Kidz Alone- lyricsStreetlyfe- So Sorry (Papa'z Song) feat. Mopreme & 2Pac - snippet
Curiosity- unfinished beat
King PinDopefiend's Diner (Kidz Version)- original versionX.Y.Z. ! (The Kidz Song)- instru fake snippet
Part 2 : Tha G'z - The Underground Railroad E.P.
- N.I.G.G.A. feat. Mouse Man & Mopreme
Wanna G (?)Power of a Woman (by Yonnie)- lyrics one verse- Don't U Trust Me (Sista'z Song) feat. Poppi & Tha Bitch'z
Don't Forget Where U From (by Yonnie)- lyrics one verse
Thoro Headz - Thoro Headz4 Colored Girlz Only - Yonnie & Mouse Man- lyrics one verse and half- 16 On Death Row feat. Cool Russell
Part 3 : Wicked & The Mouse - State of Emergency E.P. - Broken Branches (by W.A.T.M.) - snippet
- The Man (by W.A.T.M.) feat. 2Pac (speaking)
- Brothers In The Pen feat. Wycked & Mouse Man
- State of Emergency (by W.A.T.M.) - snippet
Bonus Tracks
- Producer - Big D (4, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12?, 13?, 14, 16?), JZ (1, 2, 3, 5, 8), DJ Daryl (16), Lay Law (17?), Truman 'Big Tru' Jefferson (18?, 19, 20)
DETAILED TRACKLIST down the page.
Do 4 Love 2 - unleaked
Ghetto Gospel with The Kidz
In late 91, 2Pac planned to record an album written by him and rapped by some kids around him. He recorded references of the songs for helping them to rap the texts. The group was simply called The Kidz. In the end of 92, they eventually changed their name to The Havenotz. In late 93, in Thug Life Volume One first idea of the project, 2Pac still intended to have them as guests (cf. Honor Among Thugz).
The Kidz were : Jesse, John, Arrington & Stanley
The Sista named Mista (very probably Yonnie Stokes who appeared in Dayz of a Criminal EP project and in 2Pacalypse Now) was not in the group but was close to them when the project was on. And 2Pac also recorded reference tracks for her (presumably "Don't U Trust Me").
- Ghetto Gospel = re-recorded in second half of 92 for Very Special Christmas. 2 versions : "MTV Version" with 2Pac only doing the first verse ; alternate is a duet by 2Pac and Jesse the Kid.
- Dopefiends Diner (Kidz Version) = initially from 2Pacalypse Now leftovers given to Kidz
- Papa's Song = re-recorded for Troublesome 21. Is the so called "Da Bastard's Mix" given as a b-side for the single the original reference track for the Kidz ? or the first re-recording intended for Troublesome 21 or after ?
3. Sista’z Song (reference song "Don't U Trust Me" ?) = 2Pac only appears doing reference vocals on the Reel
4. The Power of a Woman = Pac only credited as a writer
Outta Richtown (could be from 90's Daze of a Criminal EP)
The Ghetto Gospel timeline
1. c. Aug. 1991. "The Kidz - Ain't Nothing Cute About These Kidz"
Jeremy JZ Jackson started to work with 2Pac circa June for "Something Wicked". Maybe they had together that idea of recording a project with a group of kids.
"Leave Us Kidz Alone" clearly reminds us of the early concept "Leave Me The Fuck Alone" appearing in Dayz of a Criminal EP project papers circa November of 1990 as a 2Pac solo song. It seems handwritten lyrics could come from that time.
"Street Got Ya Babiez" would be a new concept specially made for the project (the eye of 2Pac on the youth, which was reused later in songs like "Amerikka'z Eatz Itz Youth").
"Curiosity" is said to have not been written by 2Pac and not with him. So maybe the Kidz recorded the song with JZ before meeting 2Pac...
"Killa Kingpin" already appeared in "album new ideas" very early tracklist for 2Pacalypse II. Probably not recorded at all, only a concept. We could also see that title as an evolution of "Young Godfather" concept maybe invented by 2Pac for D-Money, Jungle Posse member for Dayz of a Criminal EP.
Two new songs produced by Big D and JZ replaced "Curiosity" and "Kingpin".
"Lovely Day" would clearly be the "new" Kidz presentation song (so a good replacement of their own song). Let's notice the wordplay 2Pac will make in following tracklists between "Dayz" and "Daze", exactly like in "Daze/Dayz of a Criminal".
"Bedtime Storiez" : knowing 2Pac, the song wouldn't be a kid's friendly tale. What would be the dreams of a ghetto child for him, maybe becoming a kingpin ?
The 3rd of October, 2Pac recorded "Papa"z Song" with Big D, Mopreme and Poppi. For some reason, the song is not listed here... It was very likely recorded right after that tracklist... Unless 2Pac at that time wanted the song to be in his solo album (there is an early 2Pacalypse II tracklist with the song (also including "Troublesome" and "Souljah II")...
3. c. Oct. 91. "Nothing Gold/Tha G's" - "The Underground Railroad / 2Pac"
Now, the project is not anymore a single but a double EP... 2Pac reuses the name of his producing team for the title of the album (unless it is a kind of "The Underground Railroad and 2Pac presents...").
2Pac added new concepts for The Kidz (renamed Nothing Gold) in order to have a full half album. "Dopefiends Diner" - 2Pac recycled his song produced by Big D recently dropped from his first album (cf. Tales of a 90's N.I.G.G.A.). "X Y Z ! (the Kidz Song)" is the reverse of "A B C". It could be a thing using a Jackson 5 sample... "Believe N Me" is probably just a concept but it sounds similar to "Don't U Trust Me"...
Tha G's was firstly thought as the group of girls around Yonnie named "B-I-T-C-H'z" in a later tracklist, but it is more likely a name for various friends 2Pac wanted to promote at the time (there is a video of him surrounded by the posse where he presents some of them, not only the girls). That G'z side became the b-side of "32 Bottles 2 Ghetto Heaven" soundtrack compilation tracklist a few months later. "Learn 2 Be A Nigga" is very likely the first concept for... "N.I.G.G.A." ! The song recorded with Mocedes and Mouse Man in December 1991 kind of teaches what a real nigga in a positive way should be.
If "Sista'z Song" is well "Don't U Trust Me", it is a 2Pac solo song with singers Poppi and a girl maybe who will be in the B-I-T-C-H'z group. "Wanna G" could be an early concept for Yonnie or for the ThoroHeads...
4. c. Oct. or Dec. (?) 1991. The G'z EP project.
The G'z was initially thought to be the Yonnie & her girls group (which became The Bitch'z in "Music 4 32 Bottles" tracklist)... In fact (like B1st Forum member TooManyShotz made me notice) it is more likely the name for the whole posse... what could be confirmed by the final tracklist for "32 Bottles" soundtrack.
Like said previously, "Learn 2 Be A Nigga"... is very likely the first concept for "N.I.G.G.A.", so not recorded yet (maybe initially a Mopreme song). "The Power of a Woman" is obviously a Yonnie song confirmed to have been recorded. "Mr. FastTalk" could be a Mouse Man concept considering his style. If you listen to some parts of his raps, like "The Man (Wycked & The Mouse)", you can hear him rapping really quick and it fits well his nickname. Mouse went to the Bay to record with 2Pac around December of 91. He was probably just arrived or about to arrive at the time 2Pac wrote down this tracklist...
This said, "Wanna G" could eventually be an early concept for Thoro Headz... Unless it is from the beginning a planned concept for... Richie Rich & The Gov ! Or 2Pac could be considering to have a track by Live Squad ? or by some T.N.T. labelmates...
5. c. January 1992. Nuthin' Gold "Ghetto Gospel" / Mysta "4 Colored Girlz Only"
Clearly one side Kidz, one side Yonnie/Mysta.
The Kidz here have the same name "Nuthin Gold" than on the previous tracklist. Their two new songs were recorded in December. There is a "Ghetto Gospel" scenario from the same period, so the album is already thought like a soundtrack for a short movie (maybe a double soundtrack for two short movies).
The strange thing is that the Yonnie part does not include any of the previous Tha G'z songs... We can maybe guess "Power of a Woman" behind another title like "Call Me Mister"... but what about the other songs ? Maybe they were not Yonnie's...
We have handwritten lyrics by 2Pac for "4 Colored Girls Only", but nothing says the song was recorded at that time (Yonnie is here supposed to have written everything - what could also explain why none of the old tracks are here)...
6. c. June of 1992. Music 4 "32 Bottles 2 Ghetto Heaven"
The "32 Bottles 3 Ghetto Heaven" scenario is dated from June 10 of 1992. So the project is now just a movie about life of kids in the ghetto with songs by them and by various artists.
The Kidz/Nutin' Gold are now renamed Havenotz, what will be their name in 1993. The B-Side is clearly a compilation with various artists and guests who could be in the original Tha G'z side tracklists... 2Pac eventually went back on what was the original project, maybe he didn't want to released Yonnie's side if he is not writing most of her lyrics... Or maybe he just decided to stay focus on one only project for The Kidz.
The idea of "Little Wild Child" comes from the wonderful Curtis Mayfield's soundtrack to Superfly. But the song is certainly unrecorded...
"Broken Branches" marks the foundation of the group W.A.T.M., it can replace their first song "N.I.G.G.A." together with 2Pac in December of 92. "Whose the B-I-T-C-H ?" could eventually be the evolution of the song title "Power of a woman"... unless this new concept comes with Mysta forming a group around her. Maybe 2Pac was not satisfied of the songs she recorded and tried a new concept...
"Thoro Headz" is in #1 position as "Wanna G" was... Was "Wanna G" already a concept for them... ? Rich and The Gov recorded "Gaffled Like That" circa December of 1991... So maybe 2Pac already thought to record a song with them at that time... It has been said by Banned that their songs for the project could also have been recorded.
"16 on Deathrow" left the solo album tracklist circa April when "When I Get Free", "Let Them Thangs" and "Po'Nigga Blues" entered.
7. August of 1992. "Ghetto Gospel" is re-recorded...
...with Jesse the Kid but for A Very Special Christmas 2 (finally leftover). What was the purpose, giving a promo for the project ? Or does it mean the beginning of the end of it ?
8. c. November of 1992. "Lovely Daze" beat is reused...
By "Holler If Ya Hear Me (Original New York Stretch Mix)"... So what became the project ? 2Pac shoot out to the Havenotz at the end of "Thug 4 Life" circa May 1993 during the Thug Life Original late sessions and writes their name in first draft for Volume 1 circa November of 1993... But nothing says if he really recorded anything with them and if he still intended to release some of the original project... In the song "Thug Bitch" by Syke & Yonnie, recorded for Volume 1 in early 1994, we could also see the last remaining of that project.




W.A.T.M. - State of Emergency
The 22th of August 1992, they gave an outdoor concert in Marin City with 2Pac. One hour after the event, while signing autographs and posing with the people, a conflict burst out and then a firefight... 100 yards away, a kid named Qa'id passing by on his bicycle, aged 6, received a lost bullet and got killed... The bullet matched 2Pac's pistol...
2Pac claimed to have lost his pistol and someone picked it up. Mopreme was arrested but released for lack of witness. In his "Bury Me A G" verse, more or less one year later (the next time he recorded with his stepbrother), he kind of talk about that event happened just 5 days after his 25th birthday (the 17th of August 92) :
Just made twenty-five and I'm livin' like a savage.
Being a G, it ain't not an easy thing
'Cause you could fuck around, get crossed and get stuck in the game
And, for the rest of your life, you will sit and reminisce
Wonder why it had to end like this
And to the Gs, you can feel my pain.
That event didn't stop the project directly. They had a recording sessions the 27th of September ("Brothers in the Pen"). The accusation was serious and if Mo or Mouse Man had a responsibility, it could have had an impact on the good understanding. Anyway, it is said that 2Pac got angry against Mouse Man (for this or maybe for something totally different) so he decided to fly back to his hometown.
And the project was buried. Eventually 2Pac tried to give "Brothers in the Pen" to Menace II Society OST, probably in its remixed form with a new verse, song re-titled "Niggaz in the Pen". But 2Pac was fired of the cast, the song was taken off... It is probably at that time he delivers demo tapes of his new solo project called "Thug Life" where "Troublesome" and "Niggas in the Pen" can be found as bonus tracks at the end of the tracklist after new songs (cf. Thug Life Demo Tape). Mouse Man being in a song of this Demo and Mopreme becoming a member of the group, W.A.T.M. could be seen as a Thug Life before Thug Life.
Unfortunately, Mouse Man, first partner of Tupac when he was living in New York (cf. MC New York / Daze of a Criminal), was never in any released 2Pac track...
Thoro Headz - the first project of the Outlawz
"Thoroheadz" was the working title to the Thoroheadz album of which the title song was also called Thoroheads Kadafi :
"I'm catchin niggas in the mix, do the type of damage that can't be fixed dont try to hide or ride on a thorodeads dick.... cause i'll flip come equipped do some trifling shit, while my nuts hold my uzi and my ass holds the clip. Put your crew to the test, challenge the best, school him first and then take out the rest. so just check out the style of a rough juvenile, chew em up spit out put em in a rap pile. dont take me for a dick, or for a child i got rhymes on file so i can get crazy wild I buckshot and fill them suckas...full of lead, ya punks always frontin, ya suckas always dead. I love a fuckin hoochie i hate a fuckin fed, im straighht up cappin niggas puttin heads to bed. That's how it is - - - - - - when ya livin like a thorohead"
(Young Hollywood verse for the eponymous song)
Christmas Bootleg Album - Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z. Timeline
After Interscope refused Troublesome 21 album in August of 92, 2Pac scrapped most of the songs and took back some to form a whole new project then titled "Point The Finga"
While 2Pac was recording and mixing his second solo album Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z., he eventually thought to record leftover songs in a companion promo album.
Fragile is said to have been the title of a soundtrack compilation, with various music styles.
1. c. Sept. 23 (?), 1992. "Poin The Finga".
Dan Quayle called up to withdraw 2Pacalypse Now the 23rd of September. Consequently, 2Pac very probably recorded the song "Point The Finga" where he says "they banned my album".
"Black Kotton" is probably also recorded (one month earlier or maybe during the same session than "Point The Finga") even if Big D said it was his last song for 2Pac... (It could be a more advanced mix of it, or a confusion...)
"Pac's Theme Interlude", "Guess Whose Back", "Look 4 Me In The Whirlwind" (first concept for "Hellraiser" ?) and "Barely Breathing" (first concept for "Strugglin" ?) are very probably unrecorded yet. "Pac's Theme" being a Shock prod. could be already recorded but 2Pac & Shock also worked later in October so...
So 6 new songs listed (instead of "Troublesome", "Still Don't Give A Fuck", "Crooked Nigga Too", "Holler If Ya Hear Me", "Don't Call Me Bitch", "What Goes On" and "Nothing But Love" - the two late ones being just replaced by new songs, the four first being scrapped probably for being too violent.
2. Circa Sept. 27, 1992. "Representin".
The new title could mean the track with its new final verse could have been freshly recorded, so maybe alongside other Truman Jefferson recordings with W.A.T.M. the 27th of September. If we are right, 2Pac also recorded "Hellraiser" and "Strugglin" both with Live Squad during that interval of time with the previous tracklist. A W.A.T.M. song, "The Man", very likely recorded in Sept. 27 also features Stretch vocals...
Biffed titles could be a later addition. "Guess Who's Back" initially a concept song with Thoro Heads is scratched and logically replaced by "Flex" with Thoro Headz... (probably the first one was not recorded yet - here marked with a star like two other very likely unrecorded yet - "Deadly Venomz" has wrong guests in a further tracklist, new Bobcat "Revenge" will be recorded later). 2Pac thought to incorporate a Soulja "Revenge" song as the outro (not the final version or just planned to make a new version) but scrapped it for the new interlude "(Something) To Die 4". These two additions are Big D recordings, even if it is said Majesty of Live Squad co-produced "Flex".
The old concept appearing in 2Pacalypse Now tracklists "5 Deadly Styles" finally found his final title (but for sure not recorded yet).
Why "Black Cotton" is not enlisted again here ? Was it not recorded before ?
3. Circa October 92. Untitled "West / East".
"Pac's Theme" became the intro. The album has a "West" side and then a "East" side, like 2Pac will record Thug Life West and Thug Life East albums in 1993 and finally have "West" and "East" sides in Thug Life Volume One. before again reunite both sides in One Nation concept album. If we try to guess the other songs to finish the tracklist, we could have of course "5 Deadly Venoms", "Streetz R Deathrow", "Souljah's Revenge" and "Something 2 Die 4" as outro. Then we would have 15 tracks. But 2Pac will replace "Flex", "Wonder If Heaven Got A Ghetto" and "Hellraiser" by "Black Kotton" and 2 new tracks : "Peep Game", "Last Wordz".
4. Circa November 92. Strictly Representin'.
"Last
Wordz" does not have its final title and "5 Deadly Venomz" has a wrong Pee
Wee featuring... So both should be about to be recorded.
Otherwise, almost everything is there except "Pac's Theme" which will find back its introduction place and "Something 2 Die 4 (Interlude)" which will replace "Black Kotton" (maybe 2Pac didn't want anymore the song with Mouse Man because he was angry against him...). And "Holler If Ya Hear Me (Solo)" which is not even planned yet and will be included - to answer the need of a street single - maybe at the last moment, in the first position before the planned intro.
5. Circa Dec. 92. "Bootleg Christmas Album"
The project seems to be more advanced and the new solo version of "Holler if Ya Hear Me" has been recorded and is planned to be played live. This "show" is clearly oriented towards his new album with only one song from his first album being played.
Whilst finishing his Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z. album, 2Pac had the idea of an exclusive "Christmas Bootleg Album" EP that could include some Troublesome 21 leftover tracks alongside the recently dropped "Black Kotton".
DETAILED TRACKLIST
(Special thanks to Dominator & Filla of Bomb1st Forum for sample credits)
DISC ONE : CHRISTMAS BOOTLEG ALBUM
- 1992/03 (~). Fairly remixed in R U Still Down (1997, Amaru).
- Story. DJ Daryl is a member of Richie Rich's group 415. "Mo' Niggaz" ("Mo-therfucking Niggaz" or "More Niggaz") was an early title for the song. Between the two verses, it could be Spice 1 speaking. We can hear an excerpt of "Talk like sex" from Kool G Rap's Wanted Dead or Alive album (1990, Cold Chillin').
- Samples :
- 7th Wonder – "Daisy Lady" (melody)
- Gaz - "Sing Sing" (drumline)
- Sly Johnson - "Different Strokes" (guitar, bass)
- Parliament - "Flashlight" (vocals)
- Parliament - "Big Bang Theory" (vocals)
- 1992/08/23 (?).
- Story. It is said to be the first recorded song after Interscope refused Troublesome 21 for violent content, consecutively to the call of Dan Quayle to withdraw 2Pacalypse Now the 23rd of September ; first declarations of the judge could be earlier, leading Interscope to reject the Troublesome album maybe circa August of 92.
- Samples :
- Monk Higgins - "One Man Hand" (drums)
- Parliament - "Bop Gun" (vocals : "yeaaahhh")
- Kris Kross - "Warm It Up" (vocals : "you can get the finger, the middle")
- Geto Boys "Gotta Let Them Hang" (vocals : "boom boom boom on y a black ass bitch")
- 1992/08/24 (?). Awfully remixed in Loyal To The Game (2004, Amaru) with Outlawz and Eminem (for a song about slavery !).
- Story. Circa late 1992 - early 1993, the
"Fragile" sample gave the idea of a soundtrack compilation of folk standards. Dana "Mouse
Man" Smith was 2Pac's first hip hop partner in Baltimore with the East Side Crew in 1985-1987 (cf. The Early Years). Unfortunately, he never appeared in any official records. This song about black history, slavery, is certainly the
most beautiful track by the duo. 2Pac will reuse elements of the song - like the Star Trek sample - for "Pain" with Stretch, one of his most beautiful rap songs (cf. Honor Among Thugz). And he will also reuse the Sting sample for "When Thugz Cry" in 1996 for his forgotten Me Against The World pt. 2.
- Samples :
- Sting - "Fragile" (melody)
- The Headhunters & Pointer Sisters - "God Make Me Funky" (drumline)
- Star Trek V : The Final Frontier (Movie, 1989) (vocals : "I couldn't help but notice your pain")
- 1991/12 - 1992/08/12 OR 21 (new vocals, new mix). Leftover track from A Very Special Christmas 2 (oct. 1992, A&M). Original reference vocals awfully remixed in Loyal To The Game (2004, Amaru) with
- Story. Scrapped "due to legal trouble" (is that mean because of the controversy under the murder of a Texas cop by a young man who was listening to 2Pac's first album ?). Tupac re-recorded the song which was maybe just a Kidz song initially in December of 91. What is strange comparing to the acapella, verses 2 and 3 have been inverted and there is no verse 4 (which was more like the voice of an adult, like for "Papa'z Song"...). There could be another mix (MTV Mix ?) with only one 2Pac verse - unless it is the original Kidz version...
- Studio : Hyde Street Studios.
- Samples :
- Monk Higgins & The Specialites - "One Man Hand" (drums)
- 1992/01-04 (~). Remixed in R U Still Down (1997, Amaru).
- Story. 2Pac announces the featuring of Above the Law, The Underground Railroad and Treach.
- Samples :
- Roger Troutman (Zapp) - "Do It Roger" (melody)
- 1992/06 (?). The song appears in three Troublesome tracklists, the third one is scratched but featured "Mouse Man, Mystah (Yonnie) and Havoc" (of South Central Cartel). A snippet was leaked as the instrumental of the song, but was the song really recorded ? with these featuring or backing artists ?
- 1992/10 (~). Released as a B-side from Holler if ya Hear Me single (1993, Interscope).
- Story. It's clearly sounding like the released version of "Holler If Ya Hear Me" so it could be a Majesty production and not a Stretch's one. It is also the very first appearance of two Dramacydal/Outlawz members : K-Dog & Big Malc (Kastro & Edi). It is said the group could also have an eponymous song aimed for a single/EP.
- Samples :
- Norman Connors - "Laughter" (melody)
- Jackie Robinson - "Pussyfooter" (melody, drums)
- Mountain – "Long Red (Live at Woodstock)" (drumline)
- Mad Cobra - "Flex (Time For Sex)" (vocals : "flex")
- Parliament - "Bop Gun" (vocals : "yeaaahhh")
- Cypress Hill - "Hand On The Pump" (vocals)
- 1992/10 (?). Remixed in Resurrection OST (2003, Amaru).
- Story. The unleaked original is said to have parts with
Souljah's voice, and Mouse Man giving a verse (according to Banned). 2Pac is talking to Stretch in the beginning... but it was often said DJ Pooh produced the beat...
- Samples :
- Monk Higgins & The Specialites - "One Man Band" (melody)
- Fred Myrow & Malcolm Seagrave - "Phantasm Theme Song" (????)
10. Don't Call Me Bitch (Long Mix) feat. Shock G (backing) / Lay Low
- 1992/04/29 - 05 (~) (new vocals).
- Story. Sounds like a Digital Underground mix but it is probably the Lay Law plain demo. It could also be an alternate version aimed for the single/radio version (2Pac already had the t-shirts - cf. MTV interview for "Ghetto Gospel" recording - ; I absolutely want one !), or a new mix made after Troublesome 21 album being shelved (but fact that the song totally disappeared after that led to think that it could have been rejected by Interscope). There is a first take of the song which was used for a Death Row remix featuring T.I. (unofficial Too Gangsta For Radio vol. 2 Death Row copmilation, 2017 ?).
- Studio : recorded at Echo Studios.
- Samples :
- P-Funk All Stars - "Pumping It Up" (melody)
- Ennio Morricone - "The Good The Bad And The Ugly (Theme)" (melody interpolation)
- The O'Jays - "Back Stabbers" (vocals)
- N.W.A. - "A Bitch Is A Bitch" (vocals)
- Geto Boys - "Size Ain't Shit" (vocals interpolation : "some of you niggas are bitches too")
. Don't Call Me Bitch (Lars DAT Version) feat. Shock G (backing) / Lay Low
- 1992/05 - 08 (?) (new mix). UNRELEASED.
- Story. Probably a remix made for the single of Troublesome 21 album or for a B-side of Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z. after Troublesome album being shelved.
Considering that 2Pac wears a "Don't Call Me Bitch" T-shirt during the
MTV interview (92, August 21st), it means that he intended to release
the song as a single at a moment. But after the album was shelved, the
song mysteriously vanished...
- Samples :
- P-Funk All Stars - "Pumping It Up" (melody)
- Ennio Morricone - "The Good The Bad And The Ugly (Theme)" (melody interpolation)
- The O'Jays - "Back Stabbers" (vocals)
- N.W.A. - "A Bitch Is A Bitch" (vocals)
- Geto Boys - "Size Ain't Shit" (vocals interpolation : "some of you niggas are bitches too")
- 1992/10 (~). Final mix released in Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z. (1993).
- Story. The song firstly appears in "Point The Finga" early tracklist so circa September, but with a Thoro Headz featuring and is then replaced by "Flex" in the next tracklist, so it was recorded a bit later. Akshun will later produce "Open Fire" for 2Pac (cf. Mr. Middle Finger / Out on Bail).
- Samples :
- Quincy Jones - "Ironside" (sirene)
- Tom Jones - "Looking Out My Window" (vocals : "uh")
- Special Ed - "I'm Special Ed" (vocals : "I got a head but i ain't no screw in it")
- 1992/09/10-12. UNRELEASED.
- Story. Not to be confounded with "Hellrazor", which is a totally different song appearing firstly in mid 93 under the title of "Dear Lord" (cf. Mr. Middle Finger) and then re-recorded for Out On Bail / R U Still Down '94). The song could be the evolution of the original concept song titled "Look 4 Me In The Whirlwind".
- Studio : recorded at Unique Recording Studios, New York.
- Samples :
- Marva Whitney - "It's My Thing (You can't tell me who to sock it to)" (saxo)
- 1992/09/12. Final mix released in Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z. (1993).
- Story. The original concept of this new song with Live Squad was "Barely Breathing" in Point The Finga tracklist. That concept eventually turned into "Ghost" so 2Pac and Live Squad recorded that song.
- Studio : recorded at Unique Recording Studios, New York.
- Samples :
- The Soul Searchers - "Ashley's Roadchip" (drumline)
- Eric B. & Rakim - "Paid In Full" (vocals : "Stick up kid", "don't nothing move but the money")
- 1992/11 (~). Released in Holla If Ya Hear Me (12'') (1993) in a shorter edit. Released in Sprite promo (2003) with the original "Riot Version" instrumental as a b-side.
- Story. This version could be the very first version of the solo version released in Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z., or could be very close to it. 2Pac
finally chose the Black Caesar Mix which Majesty claimed to have
produced (with Also Nas' "Take It In Blood", cf. Majesty's song
"Rapumentary" in Grand Imperial's Forgotten Chapter).
Maybe the fact his name was not credited in the album nor in the single
(no more than "Flex" which would also be his beat) could have made him
wanting to collaborate less often with 2Pac (only in "Danger Timez" after that...).
- Samples :
- Billy Squier - "The Big Beat" (drums)
- George Clinton - "Atomic Dog" (drums)
- 1992/03 (~). Remixed in Loyal To The Game (2004).
- Story. It is often mistakenly said to be a reference track for The Govenor. But it appears in some early tracklists of 2Pacalypse II / Troublesome. More probably after the released of his 2nd album 2Pac gave the unused song to his friend who finally used it with the same music in his album Floss Mode in 1995. Later between '95 and '97 (?), Shock G was asked to remix the song (what is known as "Cause I Had To" feat. Numskull at the backing hook) maybe for the Pre-Death Row compilation album then titled R U Still Down / When I Get Free (1992-1996 Lost Tracks), or later for R U Still Down (Remember Me ?) in 1997.
- Samples :
- Delegation - "Oh Honey" (melody)
- Bill Whithers & Grover Washington Jr. "Just The Two Of Us" (intro melody)
- Parliament - "Color Me Funky" (vocals)
- 1992/04 (~). Slightly remixed in R U Still Down (1997) as "When I Get Free I".
- Story. The song was included in most of Troublesome 21 tracklists. An advanced mix of the song would exist with added samples - maybe the reason for being finally dropped from the album. The Bob Marley's sample seems to have just been slowed a bit. 2Pac is rapping with Souljah's voice, it is a sequel to "Soulja's Story" from 2Pacalyspe Now. 2Pac firstly recorded "Revenge of a Souljah" then "When I Get Free" and finally released "Souljah's Revenge" (closer to the first one) in Striclty 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z.. The Souljah voice, as a evil mind gangster avatar of Tupac will be very used in his Thug Life Original Concept projects (cf. Thug Life Original album & Mr Middle Finger, Honor Among Thugz / Exodus). 2Pac will give a final episode to his avatar in his late "Ballad of a Dead Souljah" (cf. All New Heat / Black Gold ; Lil' Homies), but with his normal voice like if he and his avatar finally fused. 2Pac will re-use that title for a whole new song in 1994 (cf. Stay True).
- Samples :
- Bob Marley & The Wailers – "No More Trouble" (melody)
- Curtis Mayfield - "Hard Times" (long sequence)
- 1992/04 (~).
- Story. New recorded vocals with different music. This remix is totally different from the "Trapped (Remix)" which appeared in a Tales of a 90's N.I.G.G.A.
tracklist circa April-May of 1991 and was probably just a new mix of
the song what became the retail one with Shock G at the chorus.
- Samples :
- ---?--Bill Withers - "Kissing My Love"
18. If My Homie Calls (Live at MTV Raps) feat. Stretch (hook) & Money B (backing) / Big D
- 1992/08/21. Aired at MTV Raps.
- Story. Like in the Greg Beasley R&B remix version, 2Pac is saying "It's 92" in the beginning of his second verse. Stretch gave a hook like he will do for some of the best songs 2Pac rapped live : "I Get Around", "Keep Ya Head Up" and "Pain".
- 1991/07 - 1992 (?) (new vocals, new mix).
- Story. 2Pac has there some alternate vocals (saying "it's 92" in the beginning of his 3rd verse).
The "Turbo Street Mix" was eventually intended for the Greg
Beasley Metro Mix compilation and the 2Pac and him made this version for
2Pac.
- Samples :
- Ronnie Laws - "Friends And Strangers" (saxo interpolation)
- Digital Underground - "Same Song" (vocals : "2Pac go ahead and rock this")
DISC TWO : Ghetto Gospel
PART ONE : The Kidz - Nuthin' Gold E.P.
01. Lovely Daze feat. The Kidz / JZ - SNIPPET, lyrics, cassette picture
- 1991/09-10 (~). UNRELEASED
- Story. Snippet leaked by Banned of Bomb1st. This is the only remaining of that forgotten project with The Kidz.
- Studio : Hyde Street Studios.
- Samples :
- Bill Withers - "Lovely Day"
02. The Streetz Got Ya Babiez / JZ - UNLEAKED, lyrics, cassette picture
- 1991/07-08 (~).
- Story. Possibly recorded not long after "Something Wicked" also produced by JZ. It has long been said the song was linked to "Ghost" but with the recently leaked handwritten lyrics, the two songs seem totally different.
- Studio : Hyde Street Studios (?).
03. Bedtyme Storiez / Big D (?) - UNLEAKED, cassette picture, fake instru snippet
- 1991/09-10 (~).
- Story. The title of the song appears in the tracklist of a cassette recently purposed in auction. "These are my bedtime stories, come listen to my bedtime stories... since my moms and my pops would ignore me, i had to tell myself a bedtime story".
- Studio : Hyde Street Studios.
04. Ghetto Gospel (Kidz Version) feat. The Kidz / Big D - UNLEAKED, reference track
- 91/12 (~).
- Story. A first version of the song was recorded around the same days 2Pac recorded the reference 4 verses. The last verse of it seems to be the adult point of view so it was probably rapped by 2Pac like the father's voice in "Papa'z Song". Difficult to know why 2Pac decided to re-record the song in August of 1992 for A Very Special Christmas 2. He probably wanted to promote efficiently the Kidz project but maybe he also wanted to rap again for himself these powerful lyrics he wrote at the same inspired times than "Troublesome", "Changes"...
- Studio : Hyde Street Studios (?).
05. Leave Us Kidz Alone / JZ - UNLEAKED, lyrics
- 1991/07-09 (~).
- Story. Possibly recorded not long after "Something Wicked" also produced by JZ in June. Lyrics could be taken or adapted from the old 2Pac's song "Leave Me The Fuck Alone" (cf. Daze of a Criminal EP project). "Stop the life you save may be your own, leave us kids alone... you pushed us to the edge and its on".
- Studio : Hyde Street Studios (?).
- Samples :
- Pink Floyd - "Another Brick in the Wall" (melody, concept ?)
06. Streetlyfe / Big D (?) - UNLEAKED
- 1991/12/11 (2Pac solo) - same date (~) (Kidz version ?). (REEL)
- Story. The song was recently (in 2025) confirmed by Banned of Bomb1st as being a 2Pac's 3 verses solo song recorded around the time of "Changes", firstly intended to be released in 2Pacalypse II short lived project, then given as a kind of "introduction" for The Kidz project... Considering the topic, we can imagine 2Pac rapping about the life in the streets making the young men turning to ghetto guys... Is there any Kidz version or was it planned to be a 2Pac solo song to conclude the Kidz side ?
- Samples :
- The Crusaders - "Street Life" (melody interpolation)
BONUS TRACKS
07. So Sorry (Papa'z Song) feat. The Kidz, Mopreme & Poppi / Big D - SNIPPET
- 1991/10 (reference & Kidz version). Released in a 2Pac/Mopreme version in Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z. (1993).
- Story. Recorded for the Kidz/Havenotz Ghetto Gospel project. Here one can hear a member of the Kidz rapping 2Pac's first verse last words ; 2Pac probably kept the final dad's verse. This Kidz' version strangely never appears in any Kidz/Havenotz tracklists... The song was given to 2Pac's solo album 2Pacalypse II a first time circa December and then later in June for Troublesome 21.
- Studios : Starlight Studios (Malibu, Ca).
- Samples :
- Norman Connors - "You Are My Starship" (bassline)
- Skull Snaps - "It's A New Day" (drumline)
- Pete Rock & C.L. Smooth - "They Reminisce Over You (T.R.O.Y.)" (vocals interpolation : "my biological didn't bother, yeah")
08. King Pin (Instrumental) / JZ - UNLEAKED
- 1991/07-08 (~).
- Story. The title appears in the first 2Pacalypse II "New Album Idea" tracklist and then in the first Kidz tracklist. It is said to be just an unfinished instrumental.
. Curiosity (by The Kidz) / JZ - UNLEAKED or UNRECORDED ?
- 1991/07 (?).
- Story. Could exist, but not written by 2Pac. So it could be the very first song of the group, maybe even before they met 2Pac ? Do JZ know them before 2Pac ?
09. Dopefiend's Diner (Kidz Version) / Big D - UNLEAKED or UNRECORDED ?
- 1991/10 (~).
- Story. The original song is a leftover from 2Pacalypse Now (cf. Tales of a 90's NI.G.G.A.) before being given to The Kidz as a reference track.
- Studio : Hyde Street Studios (?).
10. X.Y.Z. ! (The Kidz Song) feat. The Kidz / Big D (?) - reference track UNLEAKED or UNRECORDED ? - instrumental fake snippet
- 1991/10 (~).
- Story. 2Pac would have recorded a reference track for the song, but he wouldn't be featured in the final Kidz version.
PART TWO : The G'z - The Underground Railroad E.P.
- 1991/12 (~). Awfully remixed on Loyal To The Game (2004, Amaru) as "N.I.G.G.A. [Never Ignorant Getting Goals Accomplished] feat. Jadakiss".
- Story. "Learn 2 Be A Nigga" could be a first concept for the song (which clearly depicts the topic of the song). Mopreme says "92" but like often he is very probably anticipating the release of the project. He here uses his first nickname "Mocedes" - which he was already using in two songs of Tony! Toni! Toné! album The Revival (1990, Wing) - not yet The Wycked (funny to notice that Mopreme appeared on an official record before Tupac). The song was often confounded with "Hymn of a 90's N.I.G.G.A.", title appearing in many early 2Pacalypse Now tracklists (cf. Tales of a 90's NI.G.G.A.) but Mouse Man reunited with 2Pac only circa December of '91. The song was probably supposed to promote Mopreme's first solo project titled I'm Too Big 4 This Small Shit, before he formed a new project with Mouse Man.
- Samples :
- The Meters - "Dry Spell".
12. Wanna G (by ??) / Big D (?) - UNLEAKED ?
- 1991/12/11. (REEL)
- Story. The title appears in two tracklists of the G'z side of the Ghetto Gospel project. But was it already a Yonnie aka Mysta's 100% part ? Not sure at all. If it is not a song for Yonnie, what could it be ? I initially thought to a ThoroHeadz song like in "32 Bottles 4 Ghetto Heaven" final tracklist, but they presumably didn't record before mid 92. So it could be Yonnie, one of her friends (Angelique from "Part Time Mutha", if it is her and not Yonnie...). It could be a song with Richie Rich, The Govenor and 2Pac like the "32 Bottles" tracklist because they recorded "Geffled Like That" together maybe two weeks before. It could be a song by the Live Squad who were then recording their album. It could be somebody else from The Underground Railroad : Pee Wee, Shock G, Money B...
13. Power of a Woman (by Yonnie) / Big D - Reference Track ? UNRECORDED ?
- 1991/11 (?).
- Story. Banned would have confirmed the track. Could it be the same song than "Call Me Mista" and "Whose The B-I-T-C-H" ? We could imagine a hook like that : who's the bitch ? Call me Mista ! I will show you the power of a woman !
- Studio : Hyde Street Studios.
- 1991/10/23 (~). Remixed in Loyal To The Game (2004).
- Story. It is thought the song could be a reference track for Yonnie, because it appears in a Kidz/G'z tracklist, what would explain the fact the song sounds not finished). But the point of view in the lyrics is clearly masculine... And at that time, the project was one side for the Kidz, the other one for a compilation. So maybe 2Pac wanted to have a solo song, replaced by "16 on Death Row" in the following tracklist. Unless the lyrics were to be altered or completed for a duet... The chorus was mistakenly credited to Dave Hollister and Roniece like in "Brenda's Got A Baby" and Deb-E's Drop The Grease. But the male voice clearly sounds like Poppi from "Part Time Mutha", "Papa'z Song" and "Changes", three songs recorded between September to December 1991 with Big D. The woman's voice is very probably not Roniece either...
- Studio : Hyde Street Studios.
- Samples :
- Ronnie Laws - "Saturday Evening" (melody, chorus interpolation)
15. Thoro Headz (by Thoro Headz) / ? - Young Ho verse lyrics - UNLEAKED or UNRECORDED ?
- 1992.
- Story. Banned claims that 2Pac had a project for his cousins the Thoro Headz (then Big Malc, K-Dog & Yaki Young Hollywood). They probably recorded more than just "Flex". I think there could be one song, that one expected for Ghetto Gospel compilation. In this case, "Wanna G" and "Thoroheadz" would be the same first concept for it... On the other hand, if they came to record with 2Pac only at the time of "Flex", maybe it is their only song...
16. 16 on Death Row feat. Cool Russell (chorus) / DJ Daryl
- 1992/01 (~). Remixed in R U Still Down (1997).
- Samples :
- The Headhunters & Pointer Sisters - "God Make Me Funky" (drumline)
. Don't 4get Where U From (by Yonnie) / Big D (?) - Reference Track ? Unrecorded ?
- 1991/12 (?).
- Studio : Hyde Street Studios.
. 4 Colored Girlz Only (by Yonnie) feat. Mouse Man / ? - UNLEAKED or UNRECORDED ? part of lyrics by 2Pac for Yonnie
- 92/04 (~).
- Story. If the concept is interesting, but I suspect that Yonnie finally never came to record the song and her side of the project... That could be one more reason for the Ghetto Gospel project to get shelved.
PART THREE : W.A.T.M. - State of Emergency E.P.
- 1992/04 (?). Snippet leaked by Banned of Bomb1st Forum.
- Story. The song appears in "32 Bottles 2 Ghetto Heaven" tracklist early title for for Ghetto Gospel compilation project, circa spring '92. It was then eventually transferred to State of Emergency scrapped Wycked & The Mouse album project. It is said to not feature 2Pac.
22. The Man (by Wycked & The Mouse) feat. 2Pac (speaking) & Stretch (backing) / Big D The Impossible (?), Truman Jefferson (?)
- 1992/09/27 (?). Leaked by Banned from Bomb1st forum.
- Story. The song is an anthem song from the shelved WATM's album State of Emergency. The chorus interpolates Boogie Down Productions "Stop the violence" with : "One two three, the crew is called
BDPWycked and the Mouse". 2Pac is only speaking on this song. - Samples :
- Scott Joplin - "The Entertainer" (melody)
- Melvin Bliss - "Synthetic Substitution" (drumline)
- Sly & The Family Stone - "Sing A Simple Song" (drums)
- Boogie Down Productions - "Stop The Violence" (vocals : "one two three the crew is called")
- Public Enemy - "Night of The Living Baseheads" (vocals "lost our mind")
- 1992/09/27 (~). UNRELEASED.
- Story. Very probably recorded for State of Emergency scrapped Wycked & The Mouse project. It was said to be a leftover from Menace II Society OST, what could have been a good promotion to WATM album. In fact, maybe it is more likely the second version of the song titled "Ni**ers in the Pen" (cf. Thug Life Demo Tape) which was aimed for the compilation... This one is not a clean version of
that song. It has been recorded months before and with a totally
different Pac's verse. But it is true that 2Pac was struggling to
release his album because of Dan Quayle calling to withdraw 2Pacalypse Now, and so Interscope rejecting Troublesome 21,
so the song was possibly aimed to be the main single of the album. It
is also said the song was recorded for the birthday of both Mouse Man
& Truman Jefferson. After that, Mouse Man & Tupac fell out and
the W.A.T.M. project was scrapped.
- Samples :
- ESG - "U.F.O." (melody)
- Scarface - "Murder By Reason of Insanity" (melody, drumline)
- Ice Cube - "Color Blind" (vocals : "they got mo love for me here")
- 1992/09/27. Can be heard in a studio footage.
- Story. Snippet extracted from a video leaked by Big Tru talking about the W.A.T.M. unreleased album. It could be only an introduction. If Jeremy "JZ" Jackson was announced to be the main producer for The Kidz album, the other Underground Railroad member Truman was the producer of the W.A.T.M. album.










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Fragile is really a soundtrack compilation, with various music styles.
ReplyDeleteThese are not the titles of the remaining songs.
Thoro Headz - an album, but its contents are unknown.
Besides the fact that Mopreme is involved in many tracks, he may be a producer for some songs.
W.A.T.M. (Mopreme & Mouse Man) - State of Emergency - this is a real album, but the total number of songs recorded is unknown. Tupac was probably angry with Mouse Man because of rumors that Mouse was involved in something, so Mouse left the group and did not participate in THUG LIFE.
The Kidz - an album with 10-11 songs, but there was also an idea with a split album with Mista and a soundtrack for a movie/movies? from Tupac - 32 Bottles (screenplay and soundtrack) + Exodus (only screenplay).
I'm Too Big 4 The Small Shit - may just be a demo by Wycked.
He had a demo under the name Mocedes before, maybe it's the same project, who knows.
Christmas Bootleg Album - late 92, some sort of compilation or underground mixtape, maybe Pac thought before releasing the main S4MN album about some sort of compilation or promo, wanted to give some copies to fans at his show???
Poin The Finga/Representin/West & East - these were the initial concepts for S4MN after Troublesome 21 was cancelled.
Fragile : agree. The title was appearing in old lists of notebooks, files, etc. But I tend to drop it.
ReplyDeleteThoro Headz : I think it was more about a single, nothing more.
I'm Too Big 4 The Small Shit : for sure, it is a Mocedes demo, no Wycked. Maybe not more than an EP
The Kidz/Havenotz (late 92) : seems to be more an EP.
WATM... how many tracks good question... I suppose Banned has the answer to this.
Maybe you're right, 2Pac was more angry against Mouse than Mo... Both were still in "Niggaz in the Pen" so... Just Mo came back to his brother and met him up for Thug Life East : Mr Middle Finger. Then logically to Thug Life group.
Christmas Bootleg was, like in the end of almost every released album, an attempt to release the leftover songs. He did that every times. That's the idea behind this page. But the title couldn't be that so I have to find a new one to group this session. So "Ghetto Gospel" seems the right title to refer to it.
BANNED has hinted that ThoroHeadz has an album coming out.
DeleteWith a big Mopreme presence, so I'm open to the possibility of such a project.
But we need a tracklist because the only thing we have is Wanna G, Flex, Introduced 2 The Game, maybe Da Show! (if this is not just a Tupac track) and Brotherz in Armz (BANNED did not cross out this song from ThoroHeadz, but did not say anything about it........)
There is another Thorohead track, here is Yaki's verse:
"Thoroheadz" was the working title to the Thoroheadz album of which the title song was also called Thoroheads
Kadafi -
"I'm catchin niggas in the mix, do the type of damage that can't be fixed
dont try to hide or ride on a thorodeads dick....
cause i'll flip come equipped do some trifling shit, while my nuts hold my uzi and my ass holds the clip.
Put your crew to the test, challenge the best, school him first and then take out the rest.
so just check out the style of a rough juvenile, chew em up spit out put em in a rap pile.
dont take me for a dick, or for a child i got rhymes on file so i can get crazy wild
I buckshot and fill them suckas...full of lead, ya punks always frontin, ya suckas always dead.
I love a fuckin hoochie i hate a fuckin fed, im straighht up cappin niggas puttin heads to bed.
That's how it is - - - - - - when ya livin like a thorohead"
by BANNED
The Kidz/Havenotz - BANNED said it was a 10 track album.
DeleteMaybe there is some sequence we don't know about???
BANNED confirmed:
Streets Got Ya Babies
Lovely Daze
Leave Us Kidz Alone
Ghetto Gospel (Kidz version & Jesse Tha Kid version for XMAS comp)
Bedtime Stories
X,Y, Z (Tha Kidz Song)
Dopefiends Diner (Kidz Version)
Papa's Song (So Sorry)
Streetlife (reference track for Kidz; Kidz don't recorded?)
Little Wild Child (32 Bottles, probably a completely different project, when Pac failed to release a kids album? Too rough songs?? Interscope didn't like the album?)
Curiosity (2Pac didn't write verses for this)
Mysta also had her own project, but Tupac seemed to be thinking about a split album at some point:
Don't Forget Where You Come From
For Colored Girls Only
Sista’z Song
The Power of a Woman
King Pin
Outta Richtown
Don't Fuck With Mysta
Hell No
Call Me Mysta
Hear Me Though
there are more songs in the notebook....
We have a lot of songs for a split album, which is weird.
On the other hand, the split is probably a later idea, probably, like I said, the albums were cancelled by Interscope.
Like the fact that kidz & mysta rap about gross, not age appropriate things?
Tupac was in conflict with Mouse.
DeleteRumor has it that Mouse really upset Tupac, I don't know what Mouse did that Pac destroyed the whole WATM project and basically kicked him out of all projects as a result....
Yeah, Niggaz in Tha Pen is confusing, but maybe Tupac didn't want to keep this track and wanted to release it despite the disagreements?
Thank you for the Yaki Young Ho verse !
DeleteI trust Banned but... he tends to mash the time he refers to. For instance Mr Middle Finger for him includes Out On Bail and R U Still Down 94 ! This is not a problem but we have to take care of it...
This said, I think Thoro Headz album with Mopreme was a late 93 idea. In 92, there was maybe just a single project. Don't even know if Yak was with the other in 92...
Same goes for The Kidz album. The project went on from early 92 until maybe late 93.... Not sure about the timeline of tracklists we have... 32 Bottles 2 Go 2 Ghetto Heaven is a screenplay & soundtrack, but could be from spring 92 (when 16 on DR left the solo album tracklist) more than late 92... And "Ghetto Gospel" would be after that. At all there is 8-10 tracks, but I don't see any LP project in first half of 92. Maybe in late 92 or 93...
For Yonnie... Your list also mixes various times (pre-2Pacalypse, late 91 and maybe 92). Her EP could have been recorded or not that much... Is there anything at the time of 32 Bottles ? maybe not a lot. Songs enter the list, are then off... Probably a hand of tracks exist... I'd say the project was early dropped.
WATM. OK, thanks for the detail about Mouse. We know it could be related to the Marin City event the 22th of August 92. Concert and riot, shooting & death of the kid Qa'id from a dead bullet. It was said Mopreme had the gun, but maybe Mouse has something to do with it... Didn't say what he did firstly, or maybe escaped when justice came to ask them about what happened... Maybe it is something else...
Niggas in the Pen was probably aimed for Menace II Society. (Nothing to do with Thug Life, just a bonus in the demo tape, like Troublesome) Black Cotton was also in last S4MN tracklists and Christmas Bootleg so... 2Pac was maybe still expecting to solve their problem. Just Mouse never came back. I think it is probably not more complicated than that. 2Pac can hate you in a minute and give you love the next one, or the reverse.
I would even say that Mista's project is not exactly a solo project, as I understand Banned hinted at the participation of other girls in it (maybe it's The Bytchez?)
DeleteIt's worth noting that Pac didn't want to re-record his parts for WATM.
DeleteWho asked him to do this? Interscope managers? Atron?
Why did Tupac refuse, maybe this also played a bad note in the relationship with Mouse?
2Pac didn't want to re-record his parts for WATM ?? Wah, at what time or where can we hear that ? It is strange, why would he have to rerecord them ?
DeleteI don't know why, but such a rumor existed, maybe the lyrics were too rough?
DeleteI think that Interscope was the one who turned down most projects, they never liked Paс's rough music.
Yonnie aka The Sista named Mysta.
ReplyDeleteI do think it was a solo project. It appears clearly like that in some tracklists. But maybe on other with participation of female friends from Richtown.
The group was Tha Bitch'z or The G'z (prononced Guirz I think), what looks like Angie's group Tha Grrlzs.
I still find it weird that they never gave any interviews, lots of them did but not Mysta & Bytch'z or Kidz/Nuthin Gold, I wonder why?
ReplyDeleteOne of the Kidz is dead and one is in jail, but where are the other two?
I remember some people in B1st were talking about a video where we can see Mysta & some girls around 2Pac speaking... Never seen.
DeleteWe know 2Pac always walk forward. Maybe Interscope didn't really believe in the success of that Kidz/Mysta project - I admit that me neither... OK 2Pac lyrics but... when you listen to snippets...
I also tend to think that these kidz and Yonnie could have not been working seriously enough for Tupac. Yonnie, I bet she didn't record a lot : your list is made of titles appearing once... in each tracklist it is new things : she should have 2-3 songs max.
confirmed:
DeleteDon't Forget Where You Come From
For Colored Girls Only
Sista'z Song
The Power of a Woman
Outta Richtown
Don't Fuck With Mysta (maybe 93)
all of them are confirmed by BANNED, plus there is a notebook with lyrics for her and Kidz, so there may be more.
I'm not saying that ALL of them are definitely recorded and finished, I tend to think that the Kidz album was recorded and BANNED have album, but Mysta didn't really record songs and probably has about 8 songs, again BANNED confirmed 6 songs (plus Thug Bitch, but that 93), I kind of believe him, especially since we have no one else to trust, unfortunately.
And I think these are the only songs recorded in 91-92:
DeleteDon't Forget Where You Come From
For Colored Girls Only
Sista'z Song
The Power of a Woman
Outta Richtown
Maybe song with the Bytch'z
1."Lovely Daze" sample by Jazzy Jeff & Fresh Prince (no true, this track released on 1998)
ReplyDeleteReal Sample: Bill Withers's 'Lovely Day'.
2.Leave Us Kidz Alone sample by Pink Floyd (from Another Brick in the Wall).
3.Street Life sample from The Crusaders - Street Life.
Thank you for the samples info.
Delete