1992 - Ghetto Gospel & More...

  • Aug. 92 - late 92 : new recording sessions for a second solo album after the original Troublesome 21 project being rejected by Interscope. It will end up to Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z. 
  • Late 91 - late 92 :  recording sessions for various side projects : The Kidz/Mysta project titled Ghetto Gospel which eventually turned into a compilation soundtrack+movie project ; W.A.T.M. (Mopreme & Mouse Man) project titled State of Emergency.
  • Sources : handwritten tracklists.
Jeffrey Newbury, 1992

### WORK IN PROGRESS. There are very few tracklists after Troublesome 21 album was rejected, some Kidz/Mysta Ghetto Gospel papers and nothing about Wycked & The Mouse. So we followed the "Point The Finga/Strugglin'" tracklist and we completed it with other songs recorded at the end of the year but not released in Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z.. ###

Fragile / Ghetto Gospel / State of Emergency - Listen in YT 

DISC ONE : Christmas Bootleg (Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z. leftover tracks)

  1. Holler If Ya Hear Me (New York Rough Mix)
  2. Don't Call Me, Bitch (Lars DAT Version)
  3. Point The Finga (Alternate Mix) - snippet
  4. Black Cotton feat. Mouse Man **
  5. Ghetto Gospel (Kidz Version) feat. Jesse The Kid - acapella, snippet, remake *
  6. Brothers In The Pen feat. Wycked & Mouse Man **
  7. Love Ya Future - instrumental snippet
  8. Flex feat. Thoro Headz
  9. Ghosts feat. Mouse Man - whizz og vibe/amarog1 og vibe
  10. Papa'z Song (Kidz Version) feat. The Kidz & Wycked - snippet *
  11. Guess Who's Back (Alternate Mix) - snippet
  12. The Hell Raiser
  13. Strugglin' (Alternate Mix) - snippet
  14. Deadly Styles (Freestyle) feat. Treach & Grand Puba

Bonus tracks :
15. Big Time feat. Live Squad ***
16. State of Emergency (by W.A.T.M.) - snippet **
17. Broken Branches (by W.A.T.M.) - snippet **
18. The Man (by W.A.T.M.) feat. 2Pac (speaking) **

* from The Kidz unreleased Ghetto Gospel project.
** from Wycked & The Mouse lost album titled State of Emergency. Mocedes aka Wycked also had a solo project titled I'm Too Big 4 The Small Shit.
*** from Live Squad's Game of Survival shelved album.

Producer - Big D The Impossible (4, 5, 8, 10), Lay Law (2), Stretch & Live Squad (1, 3, 12, 13, 15, 18), Majesty (8), Truman "Big Tru" Jefferson (6, 16, 17, 18?), DJ Pooh (9), Akshun & Special Ed (11), Shock G (7)

DISC TWO : Ghetto Gospel - The Kidz / Yonnie

  1. Lovely Daze feat. The Kidz - snippet, lyrics, cassette picture
  2. The Streetz Got Ya Babiez - lyrics, cassette picture
  3. Bedtyme Storiez - cassette picture, fake instru snippet
  4. Ghetto Gospel (Kidz Version) - reference
  5. Leave Us Kidz Alone
  6. Streetlyfe
  7. Bonus Tracks

  8. Curiosity
  9. Dopefiend's Diner (Kidz Version)
  10. X.Y.Z. ! (The Kidz Song)instru fake snippet
  11. Streetlyfe

Yonnie aka Mysta

  1. 4 Colored Girlz Only feat. Mouse Man - lyrics one verse and half
  2. Don't Forget Where U Come From - lyrics ?
  3. Power of a Woman - lyrics one verse
  4. Sista'z Song

The Thoro Headz & Tha G'z

  1. Wanna G (?)
  2. Thoro Headz
  3. Brothaz N Armz (?)




Ghetto Gospel with The Kidz

In late 91, 2Pac planned to record an album written by him and rapped by some kids around him. He recorded references of the songs for helping them to rap the texts. The group was simply called The Kidz. In the end of 92, they eventually changed their name to The Havenotz. In late 93, in Thug Life Volume One first idea of the project, 2Pac still intended to have them as guests (cf. Honor Among Thugz).

The Kidz were : Jesse, John, Arrington & Stanley

The Sista named Mista (very probably Yonnie Stokes who appeared in Dayz of a Criminal EP project and in 2Pacalypse Now) was not in the group but was close to them when the project was on. And 2Pac also recorded reference tracks for her (presumably "Don't U Trust Me").

Infos about The Kidz project sometimes titled "Nothin' Gold" or simply "The Kidz", by Banned of Bomb1st forum : 
Most of these unleaked songs have 2Pac featured, have been written by him and have unleaked reference track for the Kidz where 2Pac is doing all verses :
  • Ghetto Gospel = re-recorded in second half of 92 for Very Special Christmas. 2 versions : "MTV Version" with 2Pac only doing the first verse ; alternate is a duet by 2Pac and Jesse the Kid.
  • Dopefiends Diner (Kidz Version) = initially from 2Pacalypse Now leftovers given to Kidz 
  • Papa's Song = re-recorded for Troublesome 21. Is the so called "Da Bastard's Mix" given as a b-side for the single the original reference track for the Kidz ? or the first re-recording intended for Troublesome 21 or after ?

A Sister named Mysta supposed recorded songs : 
 
1. Don't Forget Where You Come From
2. For Colored Girls Only feat. Mouse Man (credited on tracklist)
3. Sista’z Song (reference song "Don't U Trust Me" ?)
= 2Pac only appears doing reference vocals on the Reel
4. The Power of a Woman = Pac only credited as a writer
King Pin = Unfinished beat
Outta Richtown (could be from 90's Daze of a Criminal EP)
Don't Fuck With Mysta
Hell No (from a tracklist)
Call Me Mysta (from a tracklist)
Hear Me Though (from a tracklist)

The Ghetto Gospel timeline



1. c. Aug-Sept. 91. The Kidz - "Ain't Nothing Cute About These Kidz"

Jeremy JZ Jackson started to work with 2Pac circa June for "Something Wicked". Maybe they had together that idea of recording a project with a group of kids.

"Leave Us Kidz Alone" clearly reminds us of the early concept "Leave Me The Fuck Alone" appearing in Daze of a Criminal EP project papers in mid 90 as a 2Pac solo song. 

"Street Got Ya Babiez" would be a new concept specially made for the project (the eye of 2Pac on the youth, which was reused later in songs like "Amerikka'z Eatz Itz Youth").

"Curiosity" is said to have not been written by 2Pac and not with him. So maybe the Kidz recorded the song with JZ before meeting 2Pac...  

"Killa Kingpin" already appeared in "album new ideas" very early tracklist for 2Pacalypse II. Probably not recorded at all. We could also see that title as an evolution of "Young Godfather" concept maybe invented by 2Pac for D-Money, Jungle Posse member for Daze of a Criminal EP.

2. c. Sept.-Oct. 91. Streetz - "Bedtime Storiez"

Two new songs produced by Big D replaced "Curiosity" and "Kingpin".

"Lovely Day" would clearly be the "new" Kidz presentation song (so a good replacement of their song). Let's notice the wordplay 2Pac will make in following tracklists between "Dayz" and "Daze", exactly like in "Daze of a Criminal". 

"Bedtime Storiez". Knowing 2Pac, the song wouldn't be a kid's friendly tale. What would be the dream of a ghetto child for him, maybe becoming a kingpin ?

The 3rd of October, 2Pac recorded "Papa"z Song" with Big D, Mocedes and Poppi. For some reason, the song is not listed here... Either the song was recorded just after that tracklist... or 2Pac at that time wanted the song to be in his solo album (there is an early 2Pacalypse II tracklist with the song (also including "Troublesome" and "Souljah II")...


3. c. Dec. 1991. The G'z project.

This 4 tracks tracklist could be later than the next tracklist. But we believe 4 tracks corresponds to the previous one.

The G'z was initially thought to be the group of Yonnie with some girls... In fact (like B1st TooManyShotz made me notice) it could be a name for a group of guests. 

"Wanna G" is said to be an early track or early concept by Thoro Headz... "Learn 2 Be A Nigga"... could have a link with "N.I.G.G.A." the song recorded by 2Pac with Mocedes and Mouseman... which kind of tells what is a real nigga in a positive way.

"The Power of a Woman" would be the first concept for Yonnie, what eventually truned into "Call Me Mister".

"Mr. FastTalk" could be a Mouse Man concept. If you listen to some parts of his raps, like "The Man (Wycked & The Mouse)", you can hear him rapping really quick and it fits his name. Mouse probably came back to 2Pac around the end of 91.


 

3. c. Dec. 91. Nothing Gold/Tha G's - "The Underground Railroad"

Now, the project is not anymore a single but a double EP... 2Pac reuses the name of his producing team for the title of the album. This indication could lead us to think that it includes some Shock G or Pee Wee productions... So 2Pac had to add new tracks for th The Kidz' (renamed Nothing Gold) part. Tha G's was firstly thought as a group of girls, but it is more likely a name for various guests what became the b-side of Music 4 32 Bottles tracklist.

"Dopefiends Diner" - 2Pac recycled his song produced by Big D dropped from his first album (cf. Tales of a 90's N.I.G.G.A.). "X Y Z ! (the Kidz Song)" is the reverse of "A B C". It could be a thing using a Jackson 5 sample... "Believe N Me" is probably unrecorded but sounds like the old concept "Trust Me" appearing in his first album (cf. Tales of a 90's N.I.G.G.A.).

"Sista'z Song" would be a Yonnie aka Mysta song. 

 

5. The 4th of March 1992. Music 4 "32 Bottles 2 Ghetto Heaven"

The double EP evoled into a Movie+Soundtrack project. The Kidz are now renamed Havenotz. The B-Side is clearly a compilation where we can find back the various guests we could have expected in the previous Tha G'z Tracklists.

"Ghetto Gospel" is the new track recorded in late December, again with Big D. It very probably gave 2Pac the idea of a movie. And so maybe he arrived to the idea of "Little Wild Child" thinking to the wonderful Curtis Mayfield's soundtrack to Superfly. The song was probably unrecorded... Why "XYZ!" and "Dopefiends Diner" were dropped ? Were they really recorded ?

"Thoro Headz" : is it the same song than "Wanna G" but retitled, or a new one ? "Who's the B-I-T-C-H ?" could also be the final evolution of the concept "Power of a woman". "Broken Branches" could mark the foundation of the group WATM, after their first song "N.I.G.G.A." circa January of 92. 

Rich and The Gov recorded "Gaffled Like That" around that time or before... It has been said by Banned that these songs for the project could also have been recorded.

"16 on Deathrow" left the solo album tracklist exactly at this time (circa March when "When I Get Free", "Let Them Thangs" and "Po'Nigga Blues" entered). 

6. c. March-June 91. Nuthin' Gold "Ghetto Gospel" / Mysta "4 Colored Girlz Only"

This tracklist could have been made earlier than the previous one (because of the name of the group), but in fact it is more logical to think that it was written down after. Maybe WATM now think to have their own project, like Thoro Headz (Banned said they had). So maybe 2Pac turned to have a double EP album when they started to record tracks with Mysta (new well spelled).

"Streetlyfe" (confirmed to be existing) is a good replacement to "Little Wild Child", on a similar topic, but maybe with a different sample. Otherwise, Kidz part is similar to "32 Bottles" tracklist.

None of Mysta's songs appear anywhere else, so maybe the older songs ("Power of a Woman", "Sista'z Song" or "Who's the Bitch") were not recorded yet. The eponymous song" has leaked lyrics presumably written by 2Pac, so maybe it was not recorded at the time of this tracklist (because Yonnie is supposed to have written everything)...



 

W.A.T.M. - State of Emergency

In the mid '92, 2Pac was working with his step brother Mopreme "The Wycked" Shakur aka Mocedes (future Thug Life member) and his old partner Dana "Mouse Man" Smith (from his first groups East Side Crew / Born Busy) to record a group album. They have recorded maybe 5-10 songs in the year of 92, mainly with Truman Jefferson (for the ones we have). "Brothers in the Pen" was very probably the supposed single to promote the album (with "What Goes Around" included in 2Pac's second LP, cf. Troublesome 21).

The 22th of August 1992, they gave an outdoor concert in Marin City with 2Pac. One hour after the event, while signing autographs and posing with the people, a conflict burst out and then a firefight... 100 yards away, a kid named Qa'id passing by on his bicycle, aged 6, received a lost bullet and got killed... The bullet matched 2Pac's pistol...

2Pac claimed to have lost his pistol and someone picked it up. Mopreme was arrested but released for lack of witness. In his "Bury Me A G" verse, more or less one year later (the next time he recorded with his stepbrother), he kind of talk about that event happened just 5 days after his 25th birthday (the 17th of August 92) : 

Just made twenty-five and I'm livin' like a savage.
Being a G, it ain't not an easy thing
'Cause you could fuck around, get crossed and get stuck in the game
And, for the rest of your life, you will sit and reminisce
Wonder why it had to end like this
And to the Gs, you can feel my pain.

That event didn't stop the project directly. They had a recording sessions the 27th of September ("Brothers in the Pen"). The accusation was serious and if Mo or Mouse Man had a responsibility, it could have had an impact on the good understanding. Anyway, it is said that 2Pac got angry against Mouse Man (for this or maybe for something totally different) so he decided to fly back to his hometown.

And the project was buried. Eventually 2Pac tried to give "Brothers in the Pen" to Menace II Society OST, probably in its remixed form with a new verse, song re-titled "Niggaz in the Pen". But 2Pac was fired of the cast, the song was taken off... It is probably at that time he delivers demo tapes of his new solo project called "Thug Life" where "Troublesome" and "Niggas in the Pen" can be found as bonus tracks at the end of the tracklist after new songs (cf. Thug Life Demo Tape). Mouse Man being in a song of this Demo and Mopreme becoming a member of the group, W.A.T.M. could be seen as a Thug Life before Thug Life.

Unfortunately, Mouse Man, first partner of Tupac when he was living in New York (cf. MC New York / Daze of a Criminal), was never in any released 2Pac track... 

Thoro Headz - the first project of the Outlawz

"Thoroheadz" was the working title to the Thoroheadz album of which the title song was also called Thoroheads Kadafi

"I'm catchin niggas in the mix, do the type of damage that can't be fixed dont try to hide or ride on a thorodeads dick.... cause i'll flip come equipped do some trifling shit, while my nuts hold my uzi and my ass holds the clip. Put your crew to the test, challenge the best, school him first and then take out the rest. so just check out the style of a rough juvenile, chew em up spit out put em in a rap pile. dont take me for a dick, or for a child i got rhymes on file so i can get crazy wild I buckshot and fill them suckas...full of lead, ya punks always frontin, ya suckas always dead. I love a fuckin hoochie i hate a fuckin fed, im straighht up cappin niggas puttin heads to bed. That's how it is - - - - - - when ya livin like a thorohead"


Christmas Bootleg Album - Fragile

After Interscope refused Troublesome 21 album in August of 92, 2Pac scrapped most of the songs and took back some to form a whole new project then titled "Point The Finga"

While 2Pac was recording and mixing his second solo album Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z., he eventually thought to record leftover songs in a companion promo album.

Fragile is said to have been the title of a soundtrack compilation, with various music styles.

 
 

1. Circa late Aug. - Sept. 1992. "Poin The Finga".

New songs : eponymous track, "Black Kotton" (maybe taken from W.A.T.M. album), "Pac's Theme Interlude", "Guess Who's Back", "Look 4 Me In The Whirlwind" (concept already appeared but was probably never recorded) and "Barely Breathing" (that could be a first concept for "Strugglin"). So 6 new songs (instead of "Troublesome", "Still Don't Give A Fuck", "Crooked Nigga Too", "Holler If Ya Hear Me", "Don't Call Me Bitch", "What Goes On" and "Nothing But Love" - the two late ones being just replaced by new songs, the four first being scrapped probably for being too violent.

 

 

2. Circa Sept. 92. "Representin". 

"Guess Who's Back" initial concept song with Thoro Heads is scratched and replaced by "Flex" with Thoro Headz... (maybe the first one was not recorded yet) 2Pac thought to incorporate a Soulja "Revenge" song as the outro but scrapped it for the new interlude "(Something) To Die 4". The old concept "5 Deadly Venoms" finally founds his final title (but for sure not recorded yet). There are no more songs with Mouse Man and "Hellraiser" appears maybe instead of "Look 4 Me in The Whirlwind" concept.


3. Circa October 92. Untitled "West / East".

"Pac's Theme" became the intro. The album has a "West" side and then a "East" side, like 2Pac will record Thug Life West and Thug Life East albums in 1993 and finally have "West" and "East" sides in Thug Life Volume One. before again reunite both sides in One Nation concept album. If we try to guess the other songs to finish the tracklist, we could have of course "5 Deadly Venoms", "Streetz R Deathrow", "Souljah's Revenge" and "Something 2 Die 4" as outro. Then we would have 15 tracks. But 2Pac will replace "Flex", "Wonder If Heaven Got A Ghetto" and "Hellraiser" by "Black Kotton" and 2 new tracks : "Peep Game", "Last Wordz".

4. Circa November 92. Strictly Representin'.

"Last Wordz" does not have his final title and "5 Deadly Venomz" has a wrong Pee Wee featuring... So both should be about to be recorded.

Otherwise, almost everything is there except "Pac's Theme" which will find back its introduction place and "Something 2 Die 4 (Interlude)" which will replace "Black Kotton" (maybe 2Pac didn't want anymore the song with Mouse Man because he was angry against him...). And "Holler If Ya Hear Me (Solo)" which is not even planned yet and will be included - to answer the need of a street single - maybe at the last moment, in the first position before the planned intro.

 

5. Circa Dec. 92. "Bootleg Christmas Album"

The project seems to be more advanced and the new solo version of "Holler if Ya Hear Me" has been recorded and is planned to be played live. This "show" is clearly oriented towards his new album with only one song from his first album being played.

Whilst finishing his Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z. album, 2Pac had the idea of an exclusive "Christmas Bootleg Album" EP that could include some Troublesome 21 leftover tracks alongside the recently dropped "Black Kotton".

 


  

 

DETAILED TRACKLIST

(Special thanks to Dominator & Filla of Bomb1st Forum for sample credits)

01. Holler If You Hear Me (New York Rough Mix) / Stretch
  • 1992/11-12 (~). Released in Holla If Ya Hear Me (12'') (1993) in a shorter edit. Released in Sprite promo (2003) with the original "Riot Version" instrumental as a b-side. It is said to be the original first mix of the solo version released in Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z.. 2Pac finally chose the Black Caesar Mix which Majesty claimed to have produced (with Also Nas' "Take It In Blood", cf. Majesty's song "Rapumentary" in Grand Imperial's Forgotten Chapter). Maybe the fact his name was not credited in the album nor in the single (no more than "Flex" which would also be his beat) could have made him less often wanting to collaborate with 2Pac (only in "Danger Timez" after that...).
  • Samples :
02Don't Call Me Bitch (Lars DAT Version) feat. Shock G (backing) / Lay Low
  • 1992/05 - 08 (?) (new mix). Probably a remix version made for the single of Troublesome 21 album or for a B-side of Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z. after Troublesome being shelved. Considering that 2Pac wears a "Don't Call Me Bitch" T-shirt during the MTV interview (92, August 21st), it means that he intended to release the song as a single at a moment. But after the album being shelved, the song totally vanished...
  • Samples : 
03. Point The Finga (Demo) / Live Squad 
  • 1992/08 (~). It is said to be the first recorded song after Interscope refused Troublesome 21 for violent content.
  • Samples :
04. Black Cotton feat. Mouse Man / Big D The Impossible
  • 1992/08/24 (?). Awfully remixed in Loyal To The Game (2004, Amaru) with Outlawz and Eminem (for a song about slavery !). The "Fragile" sample could have given the idea of the main title for the compilation of leftover tracks after  Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z. (cf. Thug Life Demo Tape). This track with Dana Mouse Man, his first hip hop partner, about black history, is probably the most beautiful track by the duo. 2Pac reused elements of the song for "Pain" with Stretch, one of his most beautiful rap songs.
  • Samples : 
05. Ghetto Gospel (Kidz Version) feat. Jesse The Kid / Big D The Impossible -  SNIPPET / ACAPELLA / Judidouggy REMAKE 
  • 1991/12 - 1992/08/12 (new vocals, new mix). Leftover track from A Very Special Christmas 2 (oct. 1992, A&M), "due to legal trouble" (is that mean because of the controversy under the murder of a Texas cop by a young man who was listening to 2Pac's first album ?). Tupac re-recorded the song which was maybe just a Kidz song initially in December of 91. What is strange comparing to the acapella, verses 2 and 3 have been inverted and there is no verse 4 (which was more like the voice of an adult, like for "Papa'z Song"...). There could be another mix (MTV Mix ?) with only one 2Pac verse - unless it is the original Kidz version...
  • Samples : 
06. Brothers in the Pen feat. Mouse Man & The Wycked / Truman Jefferson
  • 1992/09/27. Said to be a leftover from Menace II Society OST which could have been a good promotion to WATM album. In fact, maybe it is the second version of the song known as "Ni**ers in the Pen" (cf. Thug Life Demo Tape) that was aimed for the compilation... In no way it is a clean version of that song. It has been recorded months before and with a totally different Pac's verse. But it is true that 2Pac was then struggling to release his albums because of violent content (cf. Troublesome 21), whereas maybe a compilation project could offer him more liberty. It is said the song was recorded for the birthday of both Mouse Man & Truman Jefferson. After that, Mouse Man & Tupac fell out and the W.A.T.M. project was scrapped.
  • Samples : 
07. Love Ya Future / Shock G - INSTRUMENTAL SNIPPET
  • 1992/06 (?). The song appears in three Troublesome tracklists, the third one scratched features Mouse Man, Mystah (Yonnie) and Havoc (of South Central Cartel). A snippet was leaked as the instrumental of the song, but was the song really recorded ? with these featuring or backing artists ?
08. Flex feat. Thoro Headz (aka Dramacydal) / Big D (?) & Majesty (?)
  • 1992/09-10 (~). Released as a B-side in Holler if ya Hear Me single (1993, Interscope). It's clearly sounding like the released version of "Holler If Ya Hear Me" so it could be a Majesty production and not a Stretch's one. It is also the very first appearance of two Dramacydal/Outlawz members : K-Dog & Big Malc (Kastro & Edi). It is said the group could also have an eponymous song aimed for a single/EP.
  • Sample : 
09. Ghosts feat. Mouse Man (?) / Stretch (?) & DJ Pooh (?) - UNLEAKED, Eminem REMIX / Whizz OG Vibe / AmaroG1 OG Vibe
  • 1992/09-11 (?). Remixed in Resurrection OST (2003, Amaru). The unleaked original is said to have parts with Souljah's voice, and Mouse Man giving a verse (according to Banned). 2Pac is talking to Stretch in the beginning... but DJ Pooh claimed to have produced the beat.
  • Samples : 

10. Papa'z Song (Kidz Version) feat. The Kidz, Wycked & Poppi / Big D - SNIPPET

  • 1991/10 or 1992/08 (?) (Kidz vocals). Released in a 2Pac/Mopreme version in Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z. (1993). Probably recorded for the Kidz/Havenotz Ghetto Gospel project. Here one can hear a member of the Kidz rapping 2Pac's first verse last words ; 2Pac would have probably kept the final dad's verse. The song is said to have been recorded in the last times for 2Pacalypse Now (but 2Pac finally chose "Rebel of The Underground") before being given to The Kidz and later in spring 92 being transferred back to 2Pac's solo Troublesome 21. But this Kidz' version never appears in any Kidz/Havenotz tracklists...
  • Samples : 
11. Guess Who's Back (Demo) / Akshun & Special Ed - SNIPPET
  • 1992/10 (~). The song initially appears in first tracklists with a Thoro Headz featuring and is replaced by "Flex" in the next tracklist. But maybe it was then "Revenge of a Soulja" (main hook line is "guess who's back")... and that this one was recorded later (without Soulja character). Akshun will later produce "Open Fire" for 2Pac (cf. Mr. Middle Finger / Out on Bail).
  • Samples :
12. The Hell Raiser / Live Squad
13. Strugglin' (Demo) feat. Live Squad / Live Squad - SNIPPET
  • 1992/09 (~). This could be the evolution of the early concept "Barely Breathing".
  • Samples : 
    • The Soul Searchers - "Ashley's Roadchip" (drumline)
    • Eric B. & Rakim - "Paid In Full" (vocals : "Stick up kid", "don't nothing move but the money")
14. Deadly Venoms (Freestyle) feat. Treach (Naughty By Nature) & Grand Puba (Brand Nubian) / Black Watch
  • 1992/11 (?). Probably from late "92" as said by Grand Puba, around the time of the recording of "5 Deadly Venoms" for Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z.. Considering the video, it has been said that 2Pac didn't like Grand Puba's rap, but in fact he was also on the song "Let's Get it On" with him (cf. Featurings) and was planning to invite him for One Nation sessions in 1996... 2Pac had much love for him & Brand Nubian.

BONUS TRACKS :

15. Big Time feat. Live Squad / Live Squad

  • 1992/07. Originally recorded for Live Squad's Game of Survival album (you can hear the beginning of an interlude of it at the end of the song). There are two known remixes called "Live Squad Remix", one maybe from 93-95 and the E-Money Bags version from 1997-2000.
  • Samples : 
16. State of Emergency / Truman "Big Tru" Jefferson - SNIPPET
  • 1992/09/27 (?). Snippet extracted from a video leaked by Big Tru talking about the W.A.T.M. unreleased album. It could be only an introduction. If Jeremy "JZ" Jackson was announced to be the main producer for The Kidz album, the other Underground Railroad member Truman was the producer of the W.A.T.M. album.
17. Broken Branches feat. The Wycked & Mouse Man / Truman Jefferson (?) -  SNIPPET 
  • 1992/04 (?). Track taken from the scrapped album State of Emergency by Wycked and The Mouse. Maybe recorded at the same period than other WATM/Truman Jefferson songs, around August of 92. But the song could have been recorded earlier considering it appears in "32 Bottles 2 Ghetto Heaven" soundtrack handwritten project tracklist in June of 92.

18. The Man (Wycked & The Mouse) feat. W.A.T.M. & Stretch (backing) / Big D The Impossible (?), Truman Jefferson (?)

  • 1992/09/27 (?). Leaked by Banned from Bomb1st forum. The song is the anthem song from the shelved WATM's album State of Emergency. The chorus interpolates Boogie Down Productions "Stop the violence" with : "One two three, the crew is called BDP Wycked and the Mouse". 2Pac is only speaking on this song.
  • Samples : 

DISC TWO : Ghetto Gospel - The Kidz / Yonnie

1. The Streetz Got Ya Babiez / JZ - UNLEAKED, lyrics, cassette picture 

  • 1991/07-08 (~). Possibly recorded not long after "Something Wicked" also produced by JZ. It has long been said that the song was linked to "Ghosts" but with the recently leaked handwritten lyrics, the two songs seem totally different.

2. Bedtyme Storiez / Big D - UNLEAKED, cassette picture, fake instru snippet 

  • 1991/09-11 (~). The title of the song appears in the tracklist of a cassette recently purposed in auction. "These are my bedtime stories, come listen to my bedtime stories...since my moms and my pops would ignore me, i had to tell myself a bedtime story"

3. Little Wild Child / ? - UNLEAKED

  • 1992/01-05 (?).

4. Lovely Daze feat. The Kidz / Big D - UNLEAKED snippet, lyrics, cassette picture

  • 1991/09-11 (~). 
  • Samples :

5. Leave Us Kidz Alone / JZ - UNLEAKED

  • 1991/07-08 (~). Possibly recorded not long after "Something Wicked" also produced by JZ. Could the lyrics be taken or adapted from the old 2Pac's song "Leave Me The Fuck Alone" (cf. Daze of a Criminal EP project)."Stop the life you save may be your own, leave us kids alone... you pushed us to the edge and its on"
  • Samples :

6. Ghetto Gospel (Kidz Version) feat. The Kidz / Big D - UNLEAKED, reference

  • 91/12/25 (~). A first version of the song (with only one 2Pac's verse ?) was probably recorded during the same sessions 2Pac recorded the reference 4 verses.

BONUS TRACKS

7. Curiosity (by The Kidz) / JZ - UNLEAKED

  • 1991/07 (?). Presumably confirmed by Banned, but not written by 2Pac. So it could be the very first song of the group, maybe before they met 2Pac ? Do JZ know them before 2Pac ?

8. Dopefiend's Diner (Kidz Version) / Big D - UNLEAKED

  • 1991/10-12 (~).

9. X.Y.Z. ! (The Kidz Song) (by The Kidz) / Big D (?) - UNLEAKED - instrumental fake snippet

  • 1991/10-12 (~). 2Pac is note featured but has a reference vocal take for the song.

10. Streetlyfe / Big D (?) - UNLEAKED

  • 1991/12 (~).
  • Samples :
    • The Crusaders - "Street Life" (?melody, vocals interpolation ?)

 

Bonus Tracks

 Yonnie aka Mysta & Tha G'z

???



17 comments:

  1. Fragile is really a soundtrack compilation, with various music styles.
    These are not the titles of the remaining songs.

    Thoro Headz - an album, but its contents are unknown.
    Besides the fact that Mopreme is involved in many tracks, he may be a producer for some songs.

    W.A.T.M. (Mopreme & Mouse Man) - State of Emergency - this is a real album, but the total number of songs recorded is unknown. Tupac was probably angry with Mouse Man because of rumors that Mouse was involved in something, so Mouse left the group and did not participate in THUG LIFE.

    The Kidz - an album with 10-11 songs, but there was also an idea with a split album with Mista and a soundtrack for a movie/movies? from Tupac - 32 Bottles (screenplay and soundtrack) + Exodus (only screenplay).

    I'm Too Big 4 The Small Shit - may just be a demo by Wycked.
    He had a demo under the name Mocedes before, maybe it's the same project, who knows.

    Christmas Bootleg Album - late 92, some sort of compilation or underground mixtape, maybe Pac thought before releasing the main S4MN album about some sort of compilation or promo, wanted to give some copies to fans at his show???

    Poin The Finga/Representin/West & East - these were the initial concepts for S4MN after Troublesome 21 was cancelled.

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  2. Fragile : agree. The title was appearing in old lists of notebooks, files, etc. But I tend to drop it.
    Thoro Headz : I think it was more about a single, nothing more.
    I'm Too Big 4 The Small Shit : for sure, it is a Mocedes demo, no Wycked. Maybe not more than an EP
    The Kidz/Havenotz (late 92) : seems to be more an EP.
    WATM... how many tracks good question... I suppose Banned has the answer to this.

    Maybe you're right, 2Pac was more angry against Mouse than Mo... Both were still in "Niggaz in the Pen" so... Just Mo came back to his brother and met him up for Thug Life East : Mr Middle Finger. Then logically to Thug Life group.

    Christmas Bootleg was, like in the end of almost every released album, an attempt to release the leftover songs. He did that every times. That's the idea behind this page. But the title couldn't be that so I have to find a new one to group this session. So "Ghetto Gospel" seems the right title to refer to it.

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    1. BANNED has hinted that ThoroHeadz has an album coming out.
      With a big Mopreme presence, so I'm open to the possibility of such a project.
      But we need a tracklist because the only thing we have is Wanna G, Flex, Introduced 2 The Game, maybe Da Show! (if this is not just a Tupac track) and Brotherz in Armz (BANNED did not cross out this song from ThoroHeadz, but did not say anything about it........)
      There is another Thorohead track, here is Yaki's verse:
      "Thoroheadz" was the working title to the Thoroheadz album of which the title song was also called Thoroheads
      Kadafi -
      "I'm catchin niggas in the mix, do the type of damage that can't be fixed
      dont try to hide or ride on a thorodeads dick....
      cause i'll flip come equipped do some trifling shit, while my nuts hold my uzi and my ass holds the clip.
      Put your crew to the test, challenge the best, school him first and then take out the rest.
      so just check out the style of a rough juvenile, chew em up spit out put em in a rap pile.
      dont take me for a dick, or for a child i got rhymes on file so i can get crazy wild
      I buckshot and fill them suckas...full of lead, ya punks always frontin, ya suckas always dead.
      I love a fuckin hoochie i hate a fuckin fed, im straighht up cappin niggas puttin heads to bed.
      That's how it is - - - - - - when ya livin like a thorohead"
      by BANNED

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    2. The Kidz/Havenotz - BANNED said it was a 10 track album.
      Maybe there is some sequence we don't know about???
      BANNED confirmed:
      Streets Got Ya Babies
      Lovely Daze
      Leave Us Kidz Alone
      Ghetto Gospel (Kidz version & Jesse Tha Kid version for XMAS comp)
      Bedtime Stories
      X,Y, Z (Tha Kidz Song)
      Dopefiends Diner (Kidz Version)
      Papa's Song (So Sorry)
      Streetlife (reference track for Kidz; Kidz don't recorded?)
      Little Wild Child (32 Bottles, probably a completely different project, when Pac failed to release a kids album? Too rough songs?? Interscope didn't like the album?)
      Curiosity (2Pac didn't write verses for this)
      Mysta also had her own project, but Tupac seemed to be thinking about a split album at some point:
      Don't Forget Where You Come From
      For Colored Girls Only
      Sista’z Song
      The Power of a Woman
      King Pin
      Outta Richtown
      Don't Fuck With Mysta
      Hell No
      Call Me Mysta
      Hear Me Though
      there are more songs in the notebook....

      We have a lot of songs for a split album, which is weird.
      On the other hand, the split is probably a later idea, probably, like I said, the albums were cancelled by Interscope.
      Like the fact that kidz & mysta rap about gross, not age appropriate things?

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    3. Tupac was in conflict with Mouse.
      Rumor has it that Mouse really upset Tupac, I don't know what Mouse did that Pac destroyed the whole WATM project and basically kicked him out of all projects as a result....
      Yeah, Niggaz in Tha Pen is confusing, but maybe Tupac didn't want to keep this track and wanted to release it despite the disagreements?

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    4. Thank you for the Yaki Young Ho verse !

      I trust Banned but... he tends to mash the time he refers to. For instance Mr Middle Finger for him includes Out On Bail and R U Still Down 94 ! This is not a problem but we have to take care of it...
      This said, I think Thoro Headz album with Mopreme was a late 93 idea. In 92, there was maybe just a single project. Don't even know if Yak was with the other in 92...

      Same goes for The Kidz album. The project went on from early 92 until maybe late 93.... Not sure about the timeline of tracklists we have... 32 Bottles 2 Go 2 Ghetto Heaven is a screenplay & soundtrack, but could be from spring 92 (when 16 on DR left the solo album tracklist) more than late 92... And "Ghetto Gospel" would be after that. At all there is 8-10 tracks, but I don't see any LP project in first half of 92. Maybe in late 92 or 93...

      For Yonnie... Your list also mixes various times (pre-2Pacalypse, late 91 and maybe 92). Her EP could have been recorded or not that much... Is there anything at the time of 32 Bottles ? maybe not a lot. Songs enter the list, are then off... Probably a hand of tracks exist... I'd say the project was early dropped.

      WATM. OK, thanks for the detail about Mouse. We know it could be related to the Marin City event the 22th of August 92. Concert and riot, shooting & death of the kid Qa'id from a dead bullet. It was said Mopreme had the gun, but maybe Mouse has something to do with it... Didn't say what he did firstly, or maybe escaped when justice came to ask them about what happened... Maybe it is something else...

      Niggas in the Pen was probably aimed for Menace II Society. (Nothing to do with Thug Life, just a bonus in the demo tape, like Troublesome) Black Cotton was also in last S4MN tracklists and Christmas Bootleg so... 2Pac was maybe still expecting to solve their problem. Just Mouse never came back. I think it is probably not more complicated than that. 2Pac can hate you in a minute and give you love the next one, or the reverse.

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    5. I would even say that Mista's project is not exactly a solo project, as I understand Banned hinted at the participation of other girls in it (maybe it's The Bytchez?)

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    6. It's worth noting that Pac didn't want to re-record his parts for WATM.
      Who asked him to do this? Interscope managers? Atron?
      Why did Tupac refuse, maybe this also played a bad note in the relationship with Mouse?

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    7. 2Pac didn't want to re-record his parts for WATM ?? Wah, at what time or where can we hear that ? It is strange, why would he have to rerecord them ?

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    8. I don't know why, but such a rumor existed, maybe the lyrics were too rough?
      I think that Interscope was the one who turned down most projects, they never liked Paс's rough music.

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  3. Yonnie aka The Sista named Mysta.
    I do think it was a solo project. It appears clearly like that in some tracklists. But maybe on other with participation of female friends from Richtown.
    The group was Tha Bitch'z or The G'z (prononced Guirz I think), what looks like Angie's group Tha Grrlzs.

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  4. I still find it weird that they never gave any interviews, lots of them did but not Mysta & Bytch'z or Kidz/Nuthin Gold, I wonder why?
    One of the Kidz is dead and one is in jail, but where are the other two?

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    1. I remember some people in B1st were talking about a video where we can see Mysta & some girls around 2Pac speaking... Never seen.
      We know 2Pac always walk forward. Maybe Interscope didn't really believe in the success of that Kidz/Mysta project - I admit that me neither... OK 2Pac lyrics but... when you listen to snippets...
      I also tend to think that these kidz and Yonnie could have not been working seriously enough for Tupac. Yonnie, I bet she didn't record a lot : your list is made of titles appearing once... in each tracklist it is new things : she should have 2-3 songs max.

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    2. confirmed:
      Don't Forget Where You Come From
      For Colored Girls Only
      Sista'z Song
      The Power of a Woman
      Outta Richtown
      Don't Fuck With Mysta (maybe 93)
      all of them are confirmed by BANNED, plus there is a notebook with lyrics for her and Kidz, so there may be more.
      I'm not saying that ALL of them are definitely recorded and finished, I tend to think that the Kidz album was recorded and BANNED have album, but Mysta didn't really record songs and probably has about 8 songs, again BANNED confirmed 6 songs (plus Thug Bitch, but that 93), I kind of believe him, especially since we have no one else to trust, unfortunately.

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    3. And I think these are the only songs recorded in 91-92:
      Don't Forget Where You Come From
      For Colored Girls Only
      Sista'z Song
      The Power of a Woman
      Outta Richtown
      Maybe song with the Bytch'z

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  5. 1."Lovely Daze" sample by Jazzy Jeff & Fresh Prince (no true, this track released on 1998)
    Real Sample: Bill Withers's 'Lovely Day'.
    2.Leave Us Kidz Alone sample by Pink Floyd (from Another Brick in the Wall).
    3.Street Life sample from The Crusaders - Street Life.

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    Replies
    1. Thank you for the samples info.

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