1996 - Thug Pound (with Dogg Pound)

  • Nov. 95 - Jan. 96 : Thug Pound sessions with Outlaw Immortalz and Dogg Pound.
  • Suge Knight probably re-oriented the Dogg Pound second album project (Dogg Shit) towards a collective 2Pac/Dogg Pound by combining their material to All Eyez On Me unused tracks.
  • Short lived project : kind of dispute might have occurred and the project was left totally unfinished.
  • Sources : Makaveli 2 bootleg album

### WORK IN PROGRESS. There are no known tracklist or material sequence for this short lived project so we tried to gather and organize songs the better we could, songs recorded or mixed around November 95 - January of 96, leftover tracks from All Eyez On Me and from Outlaw Immortalz : Thug Life II. We saw the thing as Thug Life + Dogg Pound + Death Row friends. ###

Tracklist  -  LISTEN
 
1. Welcome 2 Death Row feat. Danny Boy & Stacey Smallie
2. Initiated (Thug Pound) (Blow Mix) feat. Dogg Pound & Outlawz
3. Late Night (DJ Quik Version) feat. AMG & DJ Quik
4. The Struggle Continuez (Thug Life Sample) feat. Hussein, Big Syke & O.F.T.B.
5. Jack Move (Original) (by Dogg Pound, Big Syke & Outlawz)
6. Blunt Time (Original) - instrumental
7. NY '87 feat. Dogg Pound & Deadly Threat
8. Wanted Dead Or Alive (Original) feat. Snoop Dogg - demo vibe - snippet
9. M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches) feat. Outlawz, Mopreme, Big Syke & Puff Johnson
10. Um Dumpin' feat. Gonzoe, Kurupt, Starr-Loc & Nutt-So
11. World Wide M.O.B. Figgaz feat. Big Syke & Outlawz
12. Don't Stop, Keep Goin' (Long Version) feat. Dogg Pound
13. Homeboyz - dante solo edit
14. Me & My Homies feat. Nate Dogg - promo edit
15. Trump Tight (by Big Syke, Kurupt & Kadafi)
16. First 2 Bomb feat. Outlawz
17. This Life I Lead feat. Gonzoe, Dogg Pound & Nutt-So
18. Bad Boy Killaz feat. Danny Boy - instrumental / WFO & Slaughter version

Bonus Tracks :
. St. Ides Malt Liquor Commercial (Interlude) feat. Snoop Dogg 


Producers - Daz (2, 5, 7, 8?, 10, 12, 13, 16, 18), Johnny J (4, 9, 11, 17), Kurupt (15), Soopafly (14), Dr. Dre (6), DJ Quik (3), Kurt Kobane (1)
 

Thug Pound : a crushed unborn project

The project was forgotten for a long time. We had no handwritten sheets about it in 2Pac papers (what is logical because it was more likely a Daz/Dogg Pound directed project...). And it was been in the shade of One Nation. Many tracks recorded for this project have a rough studio sound that can be compared to the One Nation sessions (all recorded in the "Wack Room") - first of all "Initiated" aka "Thug Pound" (track that probably launched the idea of the project). Songs like "This Life I Lead", "World Wide MOB Figgaz" and "Dumpin'" were firstly said to have been recorded in April-May before Gonzoe stated they were from January. "First 2 Bomb", an Outlaw Immortalz anthem produced by Daz was released unofficially in Makaveli & Dillinger aside of "Don't Go 2 Sleep" (track that appear in Outlawz tracklists in May). "Trump Tight" has the same music than "Coast II Coast" so it was easy to put it close to these sessions too even if Big Syke and Kadafi talk about Thug Life and Outlaw Immortalz (both concepts disappearing after February, and Kadafi not there in February). "NY' 87" was a late leaked track at the same time than Makaveli track "Whatch Ya Mouth"... Only stayed "Initiated" which is introduced by the words "Thug Pound biatch !" but released in Daz first solo album, like if it had been recorded for him.

Death Row equation : Thug Life II + Dogg Shit = Thug Pound

This project takes origin in the background of Thug Life Volume II, one of its tracklist gave "Jack Move", "Still Ballin" and "Secretz of War" and at this occasion 2Pac gave a nickname for Dogg Pound like he made for his Immortalz : Daz Dillinger and Young Gotti. After that, when they recorded "Initiated" the 22th of December, the idea of a collaboration logically came. 

Dogg Pound second album project initially called Dogg Shit was more or less born dead because some sessions like "Can't C Me" or "Got My Mind Made Up" had been used for All Eyez On Me (probably following the demand of Suge Knight), and some other were East Coast friendly like "Don't Stop" featuring Nas (so not in the Death Row Vs. Bad Boy perspective). So maybe Suge purposed to them to transform their project to a whole collaboration with 2Pac/Outlaw Immortalz.  

So Dogg Pound started to recycle unused beats completed with 2Pac/Thug Life featurings. "Don't Stop" and "Me & My Homies" could be seen in that perspective. The Gonzoe/Nutt-So sessions from the 18th of January are a decisive addition, produced by Daz and Johnny J, like "First 2 Bomb". "MOB Figgaz" is a Johnny J production that sounds really in that same specific mood. To complete the Dogg Pound Gansta connexion, it needed a Snoop contribution. "Only Move 4 The Money" and "Wanted Dead Or Alive" could fit in that album (people tend to believe they were form May/June, like Untouchablez and Street Life, but lyrics, voices and music indicate they are more from Thug Pound times or March at the latest.

A totally scrapped project ? Or it turned into Westcoast Aftershock then into tha Last of tha Pound ?

When 2Pac arrived at Death Row, Daz & Kurupt first album was about to be released (the 31st of October 95). Their first single "New York, New York" out since September had been clearly regarded as a diss towards East side music. Daz started to work upon 2Pac's first album. Dre, Daz and Death Row gave 2Pac music or songs like Can't C Me, Got My Mind Made Up that were initially for Dogg Pound's next project. Daz and Kurupt were also invited to work with 2Pac for his second project called Outlaw Immortalz : Thug Life 2. Like he did for his group Pac eventually gave nicknames to Daz Dillinger, Kurupt tha Kingpin and Snoop Corleone. They come to record "Initiated" with the subtitle anthem "Thug Pound", reunion of the two groups.

At that time, Daz was probably working to improve his unreleased songs and to gather them in a new album project. So he thought to add 2Pac to "NY 87" (as a kind of sequel to the "New York New York" diss single) and to replace Nas by him in "Don't Stop, Keep Going" (Nas becoming a un-welcome guest with the feud of the Dogg Pound single). Maybe he also added him in Soopafly's production for Nate Dogg "Me & My Homies". They still had to record a fresh set of new songs between Dogg Pound, 2Pac and the Outlawz, so they had that session with Gonzoe, Nutt-So, Starr-Loc...

But, maybe beacause of 2Pac changing his plans, shelving his Thug Life 2 because of the dispute between Mopreme and Death Row, and starting to record a new solo album more in the vein of Me Against The World, it seems that Daz and Dogg Pound also changed their plans, recording less often with Pac. It is said that the project turned to be the Dogg Pound second album Westcoast Aftershock, that stayed unreleased at the departure of Kurupt from Death Row. Daz released his solo album in 98 with probably some of these songs, and then The Last of Tha Pound in 2004.



 

Suge Knight, Tupac, MC Hammer, Snoop Dogg.


DETAILED TRACKLIST
(Special thanks to Bomb1st members Filla and Dominator for samples credits)

FIRST DISC : THUG POUND

01. Welcome 2 Death Row feat. Danny Boy, Michel'le & Stacey Smallie / Kurt Kobane, Hurt-M-Badd & DJ Quik (?)
  • 1995/10/28 (?). You can hear the classic introduction from Dr. Dre on Death Row, same as in Dr. Dre's Chronic. But according to Kurt Kobane, it is not a Dr. Dre production. It was supposed to be the introduction of the unreleased Danny Boy album, but it has not even been used in 2010's edition of It's About Time. It is said that Pac's verse could have been added later in 96, even in April...

02. Initiated (Thug Pound) (Blow Version) feat. Dogg Pound, Hussein, Kastro & Edi / Daz

  • 1995/12/22. Released in its original form in Daz Dillinger's Retaliation, Revenge and Get Back (1998, Death Row). This version has a different mix with a wind sound in the background, more Pac adlibs and an alternate mixed ending by a few Pac words ("Nigga you y[??]") that is the exact beginning of Snoop Dogg's "Eastside Party".

03. Late Night (Quik Version) feat. AMG & DJ Quik / DJ Quik

  • 1995/12/19 (~) (AMG & Quik added). This version was supposed to be in All Eyez on Me. In a tracklist from November, the features of the song are said "Quik & Playa Ham" (a Quik friend who had an album in 92 with Penthouse Players Clique - with Quik & AMG features -, and will have a solo single in 96) so the song was probably not recorded yet. The exact guests only appear in a mid December tracklist. There is another version with a second verse by 2Pac, verses by Fatal N Felony and a flute at the chorus... Quik says he was not aware of that other version that could have been made by Death Row engineers but it is much more logic to imagine that 2Pac recorded firstly as usual waiting for his guests. The song never appeared anywhere after being dropped from All Eyez On Me so it is very probably a studio first take. Anyway, Donald Byrd never accepted to clear the sample... Even if the sample was already used in "My Definition of a Thug Nigga". "Late Night" was also the title of a Dramacydal/2Pac unreleased song intended to be in Dramacydal album in late 94. 
  • Samples : 
04. The Struggle Continues (Thug Life Sample) feat. Louis Farrakhan [speaking], Hussein, Big Syke & OFTB / Johnny J
  • 1995/10/24 - ? (sample added ?). This song starts with a long live speech from the 16th of October by Minister Farrakhan from Nation of Islam. This version re-uses the same sample than the scrapped "Thug Life" song from Thug Life Demo Tape. Probably this sample was added later after the first recording of the song (but maybe just a few days later). The fact this sample gives a dirty gangsta flavor that could fit the Thug Pound project, but Johnny J could have re-used that sample especially for Thug Life Volume II project as a internal link to the very first Thug Life project (cf. Thug Life Demo Tape)
  • Samples :

05. Jack Move (Speaking Outro) by Daz, Big Syke, Kadafi, Kastro & Hussein / Daz

  • 1994/10/17 - 1995/12/22-27 (~). Released in Tha Last of Tha Pound (2002, DPG) with a new Kurupt verse at the end. In this early version he only gives a bar at the beginning of the song (like the beginning of a verse mistakenly omitted...). The speaking intro is different (not from Syke) and there is also a voice speaking after Hussein's verse. The instrumental re-uses an unused Murder Was The Case beat (probably an alternate version of the beat used for Slip Capone's "The Eulogy").
  • Samples : 

06. Blunt Time feat. Dr. Dre, Lady of Rage & Roger Troutman / Dr. Dre - INSTRUMENTAL

  • 1995/11/02 (?). Lady of Rage posted a picture of a tape with "2Pac - Blunt Time" written on a short video (with an instrumental that seems to have nothing to do with it). An instrumental slightly different from the RBX-Aftermath version has also been uploaded in Youtube. The very first recorded version could have Dr. Dre rapping solo (text from J-Flexx) with Roger Troutman at the chorus (recorded at the same period than "California Love Solo" ?)... Then 2Pac and Lady of Rage could have recorded their verses. Does the 2Pac version features also a Dre verse ?

07.  NY '87 (Now That's Dissin') feat. Dogg Pound & Deadly Threat / Daz

  • 1995/12/14. Released in 2012 Dogg Pound's leftover compilation Doggy Bag, (WIDEawake), but without 2Pac's verse. It has been said Dogg Pound and Threat firstly recorded the song without him for their second aborted project album Dogg Shit as an answer to the C-N-N song "New-York, New-York". Then 2Pac was added in December (like it was the case for "Don't Stop". But the dates don't really fit because 2Pac was already in Death Row when the feud blasts... More likely Daz edited the song without Pac in summer of '96, maybe even after Pac's death (the same way Snoop took him off of his album Doggfather...) for Dogg Pound project album then titled West Coast Aftershock.

08. Wanted Dead or Alive (Original Version) feat. Snoop Dogg / Daz (?) - OG DEMO VIBE - SNIPPET (?)

  • 1995/10/13 (?) - 1996/01 (?). Nothing is known about the original version of the song. Uncle Charlie confirmed he was not in the original (he said he never recorded a song with 2Pac). Maybe there was initially no chorus (Val Young was not recording with 2Pac at that time). Like many other songs from the Thug Pound project, everything was probably unfinished. So Daz probably remixed it in mid-late 96, added Uncle Charlie (who was singing in many songs of Snoop Doggfather album), Val Young chorus and a Snoop speaking outro for Gridlock'd soundtrack (1997, Death Row). It has been said more recently that the song had been recorded at the time of "2 of Amerikaz Most Wanted", maybe like a freestyle over the same beat the 13th of October (date of first recording), or maybe as a first draft of song but 2Pac was not satisfied with it and even would have criticized Snoop's verses and they would have rewritten and re-recorded a totally new song a few days later (the 15th or the 17th of October).
  • Samples :

09. M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches) feat. Hussein, Mopreme, Big Syke, Edi & Puff Johnson / Kurt Kobane

  • 1995/10/28. It has been said the song was supposed to be on All Eyez on Me, but the mix wasn't ready on time. In fact the song never appears in All Eyez on Me tracklists and has been recorded early... 2Pac raps some bars in spanish, and kicks about the famous name of a gang : MOB (Member of Blood). We could think at the difference with the first conception of "Thug Life" as a code of honor in order to appease the gang war... Now 2Pac have made a choice, entered the war... There is another version without the female chorus (maybe Puff Johnson who recorded a chorus for "U Can Call" and "I'd Rather Be Ya Nigga" around the same days).
10. Um Dumpin' feat. Gonzoe (Kausion), Kurupt, Starr-Loc & Nutt-So (Street Thugs) / Daz  
  • 1996/01/18. Remixed on Makaveli & Dillinger (1997). Like "This Life I Lead", it features Gonzoe and Nutt-So. In an interview, Gonzoe said that he also recorded a version of "Outlaw Immortal". Starr-Loc is a totally unknown female rapper, but not the same woman than on "Ride 4 Me" (she denied herself).
  • Samples : 

11. World Wide M.O.B. Figgaz feat. Big Syke, Edi & Kastro / Johnny J

  • 1996/01/18-21 (2Pac added a few days after the first take). Remixed in Until The End of Time (2001). It is said to have been recorded the same day than "Dumpin'" and "This Life I Lead". This Johnny J music sounds like a Dogg Pound beat here : raw, dirty & gangsta. Like if he tried new things specifically for that project.
  • Sample : 

12. Don't Stop (Long Version) feat. Dogg Pound & Slip Capone / Daz

  • 1996/01 (?). Released in Dogg Pound's 2002 (2001, Death Row) without last Kurupt's verse. A first version would have been recorded in 1995 with Nas instead of 2Pac (released in Tha Last of Tha Pound, in 2004). Probably because of the feud between the Dogg Pound and C-N-N & Mobb Deep ("New York, New York" answered by "L.A, L.A"), they dropped out the Nas verse and gave a space to 2Pac who had also enemies in New-York (Mobb Deep was not yet that criticized except by Napoleon). Kurupt re-recorded his verse or edited it : "Kurupt, Daz and Nas" becoming "Kurupt, Daz reside". In this original re-recording long mix, Kurupt tried a second verse. Daz probably edited that second verse off in August of '96 for their West Coast Aftershock project second album.
  • Samples :
13. Homeboyz (Original) feat. Napoleon (chorus) / Daz - SOLO EDIT by Dante
  • 1996/01/09 (~). Remixed in Still I Rise (1999) with a new Young Noble verse. The original hasn't been leaked yet but it is said to be very similar to the released version (Daz did not rework a lot of his Pac material). It has been said that the OG features Napoleon, but is he only at the chorus like in the retail or does he deliver a verse too ? Probably not, otherwise Napoleon would have given a new verse also in Still I Rise. Was there another Pac verse (his "Me & My Homies" verse could eventually fit) or another guest (Mopreme, Daz...) ? Maybe the song was unfinished like many other Thug Pound tracks with nothing else that an empty instrumental (like "First 2 Bomb"), that could explain why only Young Noble gave a verse in the retail version.
  • Samples :

14. Me & My Homies (Promo Mix) feat. Nate Dogg & Nanci Fletcher / Soopafly

  • 1996/01/09 (?). Recorded for Nate Dogg's first album : G-Funk Classics vol. 1 released in 1997. It has been said Nate Dogg firstly recorded his version in 1995 and 2Pac added his verse in 1996, but we have no proof of that. Pac's verse mentions "I ain't shit without my homeboys" and could have been taken from the original of "Homeboys" recorded in January of 96. That verse could have been replaced by Young Noble in the released version in Still I Rise. Or, that verse could have simply been written and recorded around that same time inspired by a similar concept.

15. Trump Tight by Big Syke, Kurupt & Kadafi / Kurupt

  • 1995/12/14 (?). Kadafi says "Young Thugs", "Outlaw Immortalz" and "Thug Life" at the end (so from late 95 - early 96, before Syke left Death Row). Probably recorded for the Thug Pound project. The music of this track will be re-used for "Ginseng Power/Coast II Coast/Thug Nigga" in One Nation.

16. First 2 Bomb feat. Napoleon, Kadafi & Edi / Daz

  • 1996/01/16 (~). Remixed by Daz on Makaveli & Dillinger (1999). 2Pac repeats "Outlaw Immortal" like an anthem. The song being produced by Daz and not listed in Thug Life 2 tracklist, it clearly fits to this project. It has many similarities with "Dumpin" beat, and with Pac's verse in it, also with his lyrics in "Grab The Mic" and "He Vs. She" recorded the 12th and the 13rd of January. The song is unfinished or has a space at the end for another verse.
  • Samples :
    • The Sequence - "Funk You Up" (sound effects interpolation)

17. This Life I Lead feat. Gonzoe, Dogg Pound & Nutt-So / Johnny J

  • 1996/01/18. Remixed in Better Dayz (2002). Initially, people tend to think that it has been recorded with some other Makaveli & Dillinger tracks like "Don't Fall Asleep" in April/May of 96. But Gonzoe confirmed that he recorded the song in January, like indicated by the Reel. Johnny J is credited as the producer in Better Dayz but the kind of beat is strangely close to other Daz material aimed for Thug Pound project. Is it a mistake or like in "World Wide MOB Figgaz", or did Johnny J try a new kind of doggish sound especially for that project ?
  • Samples : 

18. Bad Boy Killers (Interlude) feat. Danny Boy / Kurt Kobane

  • 1996/02/06. It was said to feature 2Pac, Outlawz maybe Big Syke & DeVanté Swing of Jodeci, but nothing says if such a version exists somewhere.... The song appears in Danny Boy's stuff. Kurt Kobane already had produced the "Welcome 2 Death Row" for him & 2Pac, and "M.O.B." for 2Pac. DeVanté Swing has produced songs for Danny Boy, and "No More Pain" for 2Pac but he probably didn't do anything on this one. Instead of 2Pac and friends, the song has been completed in Feb.-March 96 by Death Row inmates credited by the names of WFO and Slaughter (a male voice sounding like Malik and a female voice).
  • Samples :

BONUS TRACKS

. St. Ides Malt Liquor Commercial (Long Version) feat. Snoop Dogg / DJ Pooh & E-Swift

  • 1996/01 (?). Commercial for a well known malt liquor. 2Pac had already done one in 93. There are two versions of this commercial : a long radio version (50'') and a short video one (40''). When was it recorded ? It refers to "Blueberry", a song planned to be in LBC album Haven't U Heard ?, planned to be released around late 95 - beginning of 96 but finally shelved around that time because of a dispute between Snoop and Lil C-Style about royalties. So Snoop maybe wouldn't have rapped these lines about the song after that.


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