1996 - Thug Pound

• Oct. 95 - Jan. 96 : new songs and leftover tracks around the connection between 2Pac and the Dogg Pound, new headliners of the label.
  
• Suge Knight possibly re-oriented the Dogg Pound second album project (Dogg Shit) towards a Death Row promotion collective project depicting the new face of label with 2Pac's arrival and the fresh released first album of the Dogg Pound.
• Short lived project brutally stopped and left unfinished probably because of the dispute between 2Pac and Dr. Dre, because of Mopreme's departure or maybe another dispute.
  
• Sources : Makaveli 2 bootleg album
  

### WORK IN PROGRESS. There are no tracklist nor material sequence known for that short lived project so we tried to gather and organize songs that could fit the timeline and the vibe of the project, leftover tracks from All Eyez On Me and from Outlaw Immortalz : Thug Life II. We saw the thing as Thug Life + Dogg Pound + Death Row friends. ###

Tracklist  -  LISTEN

 

1. Welcome 2 Death Row feat. Danny Boy & Stacey Smallie

2. Initiated (Thug Pound) (Blow Mix) feat. Dogg Pound & Outlawz

3. Late Night (DJ Quik Version) feat. AMG & DJ Quik

4. The Struggle Continuez (Thug Life Sample) feat. Hussein, Big Syke & O.F.T.B.

5. 6 or 12 (by Outlawz & Big Syke) - unfinished

6. Blunt Time (Original) - instrumental

7. NY '87 feat. Dogg Pound & Deadly Threat
8. Wanted Dead Or Alive (Original) feat. Snoop Dogg - demo vibe - snippet

9. M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches) feat. Outlawz, Mopreme, Big Syke & Puff Johnson
10. Um Dumpin' feat. Gonzoe, Kurupt, Starr-Loc & Nutt-So
11. World Wide M.O.B. Figgaz feat. Big Syke & Outlawz

12. Don't Stop, Keep Goin' (Long Version) feat. Dogg Pound

13. Homeboyz - dante solo edit

14. Trump Tight (by Big Syke, Kurupt & Kadafi)

15. Outlaw Immortalz feat. Outlawz & Big Syke

16. First 2 Bomb feat. Outlawz

17. This Life I Lead feat. Gonzoe, Dogg Pound & Nutt-So

18. Bad Boy Killaz feat. Danny Boy - instrumental / WFO & Slaughter version

Bonus Tracks :

. St. Ides Malt Liquor Commercial (Interlude) feat. Snoop Dogg 

. Me & My Homies (Original Mix) feat. Nate Dogg - promo edit

• Producers - Daz (2, 5, 7, 8?, 10, 12, 13, 16), Johnny J (4, 11, 17), Kurupt (14), Sam Sneed (15), Dr. Dre (6), DJ Quik (3), Kurt Kobane (1, 9, 18), Mike Mosley & Rick Rock (5), Soopafly (Bonus)
• BOLD : tracks for sure recorded or purposed for the compilation.
  

 

Thug Pound : ruins of a project under One Nation ground...

The project was forgotten for a long time. We had no handwritten sheets about it in 2Pac papers (what is logical because it was more likely a Daz/Dogg Pound directed project...). And it was somewhere in the shade of One Nation. Many tracks recorded for the project have that same rough studio sound that can be compared to these June sessions. First of all "Initiated" aka "Thug Pound" (track that may have launched the idea of the project). Songs like "This Life I Lead", "World Wide MOB Figgaz" and "Dumpin'" were firstly said to have been recorded in April-May before Gonzoe stated they were from January. "First 2 Bomb", an Outlaw Immortalz anthem produced by Daz was unofficially released in Makaveli & Dillinger aside of "Don't Go 2 Sleep" (track that appear in Outlawz tracklists in May). "Trump Tight" has the same music than "Coast II Coast" so it was easy to put it close to these sessions too even if Big Syke and Kadafi talk about "Thug Life" and "Outlaw Immortalz" (both concepts disappearing after February). "NY' 87" was a late leaked track at the same time than Makaveli track "Whatch Ya Mouth"... Only stayed "Initiated" which is introduced by the words "Thug Pound biatch !" but released in Daz first solo album, like if it had been recorded for him...

 

Death Row equation : Thug Life II + Dogg Shit = Thug Pound

This project takes origin in the background of Thug Life Volume II, one of its tracklist gave "Jack Move", "Still Ballin" and "Secretz of War" and at this occasion 2Pac gave a nickname for Dogg Pound like he made for his Immortalz : Daz Dillinger and Young Gotti. After that, when they recorded "Initiated" the 22th of December, the idea of a collaboration logically came. 

Dogg Pound second album project initially called Dogg Shit was more or less born dead because some sessions like "Can't C Me" or "Got My Mind Made Up" had been used for All Eyez On Me (probably following the demand of Suge Knight), and some other were East Coast friendly like "Don't Stop" featuring Nas (so not in the Death Row Vs. Bad Boy perspective). So maybe Suge purposed to them to transform their project to a whole collaboration with 2Pac/Outlaw Immortalz.  

So Dogg Pound started to recycle unused beats completed with 2Pac/Thug Life featurings. "Don't Stop" and "Me & My Homies" could be seen in that perspective. The Gonzoe/Nutt-So sessions from the 18th of January are a decisive addition, produced by Daz and Johnny J, like "First 2 Bomb". "MOB Figgaz" is a Johnny J production that sounds really in that same specific mood. To complete the Dogg Pound Gansta connexion, it needed a Snoop contribution. "Only Move 4 The Money" and "Wanted Dead Or Alive" could fit in that album (people tend to believe they were form May/June, like Untouchablez and Street Life, but lyrics, voices and music indicate they are more from Thug Pound times or March at the latest. 

 

Totally scrapped project ? Or it turned into Westcoast Aftershock then Tha Last of tha Pound ?

When 2Pac arrived at Death Row, Daz & Kurupt first album was about to be released (the 31st of October 95). Their first single "New York, New York" out since September had been clearly regarded as a diss towards East side music. Daz started to work upon 2Pac's first album. Dre, Daz and Death Row gave 2Pac music or songs like Can't C Me, Got My Mind Made Up that were initially for Dogg Pound's next project. Daz and Kurupt were also invited to work with 2Pac for his second project called Outlaw Immortalz : Thug Life 2. Like he did for his group Pac eventually gave nicknames to Daz Dillinger, Kurupt tha Kingpin and Snoop Corleone. They come to record "Initiated" with the subtitle anthem "Thug Pound", reunion of the two groups.

At that time, Daz was probably working to improve his unreleased songs and to gather them in a new album project. So he thought to add 2Pac to "NY 87" (as a kind of sequel to the "New York New York" diss single) and to replace Nas by him in "Don't Stop, Keep Going" (Nas becoming a un-welcome guest with the feud of the Dogg Pound single). Maybe he also added him in Soopafly's production for Nate Dogg "Me & My Homies". They still had to record a fresh set of new songs between Dogg Pound, 2Pac and the Outlawz, so they had that session with Gonzoe, Nutt-So, Starr-Loc...

But, maybe beacause of 2Pac changing his plans, shelving his Thug Life 2 because of the dispute between Mopreme and Death Row, and starting to record a new solo album more in the vein of Me Against The World, it seems that Daz and Dogg Pound also changed their plans, recording less often with Pac. It is said that the project turned to be the Dogg Pound second album Westcoast Aftershock, that stayed unreleased at the departure of Kurupt from Death Row. Daz released his solo album in 98 with probably some of these songs, and then The Last of Tha Pound in 2004.

 2Pac & Dr. Dre circa late 95
Pac seems to have the same clothes than on Chi-Modu photoset

Snoop claims Kurupt and 2Pac almost had a fight together...

When did that event occur ? There was also Daz and Nate Dogg who separated them... The last songs Kurupt recorded with 2Pac was "Just Watching" with Snoop and Daz for the Snoop's album Tha Doggfather in late February and "Ride 4 Me" with Hussein and unknown girls for the Lil Homies project  and early March 96... He also recorded "We Rock The Hip Hop" for One Nation, but only with the Outlawz, not with 2Pac... Maybe the rupture was not complete between them (he still wrote his name in One Nation credits and kept his song in last tracklists). So it could have occurred at the time of Thug Pound : they recorded "This Life I Lead" and "Dumpin" together the 18th of January 96 and the project got stopped after that... That could be the reason why 2Pac got back to a new solo album project...

What was the reason for this dispute ? Was it because of Dr. Dre ? Because of some jealousy ? Because the good relationship Kurupt had with the East coast ? because of women and young women tendency of Kurupt ?

 

Suge Knight, Tupac, MC Hammer, Snoop Dogg, the 29th of January

at the 23rd annual American Music awards.

DETAILED TRACKLIST

(Special thanks to Bomb1st members Filla and Dominator for samples credits)

 

01. Welcome 2 Death Row feat. Danny Boy, Michel'le & Stacey Smallie / Kurt Kobane, Hurt-M-Badd & DJ Quik (?)

• 1995/10/28 (?) - ? (2Pac added ?). You can hear the classic introduction from Dr. Dre on Death Row, same as in Dr. Dre's Chronic. But according to Kurt Kobane, it is not a Dr. Dre production. It was initially supposed to be an introduction to the unreleased Danny Boy album (cf. Danny Boy's The DJ Quik Sessions), but it has not even been used in 2010's edition of It's About Time. It is said that Pac's verse could have been added later in 96, even in April... Another hypothesis would be to see the track as a reassignation from a
  

02. Initiated (Thug Pound) (Blow Version) feat. Dogg Pound, Hussein, Kastro & Edi / Daz

• 1995/12/22. Released in its original form in Daz Dillinger's Retaliation, Revenge and Get Back (1998, Death Row). This version has a different mix with a wind sound in the background, more Pac adlibs and an alternate mixed ending by a few Pac words ("Nigga you y[??]") that is the exact beginning of Snoop Dogg's "Eastside Party".

03. Late Night (Quik Version) feat. AMG & DJ Quik / DJ Quik

• 1995/11 - 12/19 (~) (AMG & Quik added). This version was supposed to be in All Eyez on Me. In a tracklist from November, the features of the song are said "Quik & Playa Ham" (a Quik friend who had an album in 92 with Penthouse Players Clique - with Quik & AMG features -, and will have a solo single in 96) so the song was probably not recorded yet. The exact guests only appear in a mid December tracklist. There is another version with a second verse by 2Pac, verses by Fatal N Felony and a flute at the chorus... Quik says he was not aware of that other version that could have been made by Death Row engineers but it is much more logic to imagine that 2Pac recorded firstly as usual waiting for his guests. The song never appeared anywhere after being dropped from All Eyez On Me so it was very probably a studio first take (for an aborted Fatal N Felony project). Moreover, "Late Night" was the title of a Dramacydal/2Pac unreleased song intended to be in Dramacydal album in late 94 (and Quik was probably unaware of that neither). Anyway, Donald Byrd never accepted to clear the sample... even if the sample was already used in "My Definition of a Thug Nigga".
  
• Samples : 
• Donald Byrd - "Wind Parade" (melody)
  
• Esther Williams - "Last Night Changed It All (I Really Had A Ball)" (vocals)
• Eddie Bo - "Hook and Sling pt. 1" (vocals : "yeaah")
  
• Richard Pryor - "Have Your Ass Home by 11:00"  (vocals)

04. The Struggle Continues (Thug Life Sample) feat. Louis Farrakhan [speaking], Hussein, Big Syke & OFTB / Johnny J

• 1995/10/24 - ? (sample added ?). This song starts with a long live speech from the 16th of October by Minister Farrakhan from Nation of Islam. This version re-uses the same sample than the scrapped "Thug Life" song from Thug Life Demo Tape. Probably this sample was added later after the first recording of the song (but maybe just a few days later). The fact this sample gives a dirty gangsta flavor that could fit the Thug Pound project, but Johnny J could have re-used that sample especially for Thug Life Volume II project as a internal link to the very first Thug Life project (cf. Thug Life Demo Tape)
  
• Samples :
• The Commodores - "Cebu" (melody)
• Run DMC - "Jam Master Jay" (drumline)
  
• Louis Farrakhan - "Million Man March Speech (Oct. 16th, 95)" (quotes)

05. 6 or 12 (by Kastro, Hussein, Big Syke, Edi & Kadafi) / Mike Mosley & Rick Rock

• 1995/11/28. Recorded the same day than "Komradz" (produced by Johnny J) and "Tradin' War Stories" and "Ain't Hard 2 Find" (both produced by Mosley & Rock). This song seems to be incomplete. Maybe 2Pac was on it but never recorded his verse, maybe Mopreme for a whole Thug Life thing, maybe another Outlaw member like Storm who was in other songs recorded that day, maybe a Bay Area rapper...

06. Blunt Time feat. Dr. Dre, Lady of Rage & Roger Troutman / Dr. Dre - INSTRUMENTAL

• 1995/11/02 (?). Lady of Rage posted a picture of a tape with "2Pac - Blunt Time" written on a short video (with an instrumental that seems to have nothing to do with it). An instrumental slightly different from the RBX-Aftermath version has also been uploaded in Youtube. The very first recorded version could have Dr. Dre rapping solo (text from J-Flexx) with Roger Troutman at the chorus (recorded at the same period than "California Love Solo" ?)... Then 2Pac and Lady of Rage could have recorded their verses. Does the 2Pac version features also a Dre verse ?

07.  NY '87 (Now That's Dissin') feat. Dogg Pound & Deadly Threat / Daz

• 1995/12/14. Released in 2012 Dogg Pound's leftover compilation Doggy Bag, (WIDEawake), but without 2Pac's verse. It has been said Dogg Pound and Threat firstly recorded the song without him for their second aborted project album Dogg Shit as an answer to the C-N-N song "New-York, New-York". Then 2Pac was added in December (like it was the case for "Don't Stop" with 2Pac  replacing Nas). But the dates don't really fit because 2Pac was already in Death Row when the feud blasts... More likely Daz edited the song without Pac in summer of '96, maybe even after Pac's death (the same way Snoop took him off of his album Doggfather...) for Dogg Pound project album then titled West Coast Aftershock.
  

08. Wanted Dead or Alive (Original Version) feat. Snoop Dogg / Daz (?) - OG DEMO VIBE - SNIPPET (?)

• 1995/10/13 (?) - 1996/01 (?). Nothing is known about the original version of the song. Uncle Charlie confirmed he was not in the original (he said he never recorded a song with 2Pac). Maybe there was initially no chorus (Val Young was not recording with 2Pac at that time). Like many other songs from the Thug Pound project, everything was probably unfinished. So Daz probably remixed it in mid-late 96, added Uncle Charlie (who was singing in many songs of Snoop Doggfather album), Val Young chorus and a Snoop speaking outro for Gridlock'd soundtrack (1997, Death Row). It has been said more recently that the song had been recorded at the time of "2 of Amerikaz Most Wanted", maybe like a freestyle over the same beat the 13th of October (date of first recording), or maybe as a first draft of song but 2Pac was not satisfied with it and even would have criticized Snoop's verses and they would have rewritten and re-recorded a totally new song a few days later (the 15th or the 17th of October).
• Samples :
  
• Zapp & Roger - "Dance Floor" (melody interpolation) - Retail version ?
  
• Tom Browne "Funkin’ for Jamaica" - Snippet, Original ?
• Domino - "Long Beach Funk" - snippet Original ?
  

09. M.O.B. (Money Over Bitches) feat. Hussein, Mopreme, Big Syke, Edi & Puff Johnson / Kurt Kobane

• 1995/10/28. It has been said the song was supposed to be on All Eyez on Me, but the mix wasn't ready on time. In fact the song never appears in All Eyez on Me tracklists and has been recorded early... 2Pac raps some bars in spanish, and kicks about the famous name of a gang : MOB (Member of Blood). We could think at the difference with the first conception of "Thug Life" as a code of honor in order to appease the gang war... Now 2Pac have made a choice, entered the war... There is another version without the female chorus (maybe Puff Johnson who recorded a chorus for "U Can Call" and "I'd Rather Be Ya Nigga" around the same days).

10. Um Dumpin' feat. Gonzoe (Kausion), Kurupt, Starr-Loc & Nutt-So (Street Thugs) / Daz  

• 1996/01/18. Remixed on Makaveli & Dillinger (1997). Like "This Life I Lead", it features Gonzoe and Nutt-So. In an interview, Gonzoe said that he also recorded a version of "Outlaw Immortal". Starr-Loc is a totally unknown female rapper, but not the same woman than on "Ride 4 Me" (she denied herself).
• Samples : 
• Onyx - "All We Got Iz Us (Evil Streets)" (vocals : "You ain't heartless")
  

11. World Wide M.O.B. Figgaz feat. Big Syke, Edi & Kastro / Johnny J

• 1996/01/18 - 21 (2Pac added a few days after the first take). Remixed in Until The End of Time (2001). It is said to have been recorded the same day than "Dumpin'" and "This Life I Lead". This Johnny J music sounds like a Dogg Pound beat here : raw, dirty & gangsta. Like if he tried new things specifically for that project.
  
• Sample : 
• One Way - "Can I" (melody, drumline)
  
• Scarface (Movie, 1983) (vocals)
• Goodfellas (Movie, 1990) (vocals)
  
• Reservoir Dogs (Movie, 1992) (vocals)

12. Don't Stop (Long Version) feat. Dogg Pound / Daz

• 1996/01 (?). Released in Dogg Pound's 2002 (2001, Death Row) without last Kurupt's verse. The first version of the song was recorded in summer of 1995 with Nas (released in Tha Last of Tha Pound, in 2004). Probably because of the feud between the Dogg Pound and C-N-N / Mobb Deep ("New York, New York" answered by "L.A, L.A"), they dropped out the Nas verse and gave a space to 2Pac who had also enemies in New-York (Mobb Deep was not yet that criticized except by Napoleon). Kurupt re-recorded his verse or edited it : "Kurupt, Daz and Nas" becoming "Kurupt, Daz reside". In this original re-recording long mix, Kurupt tried a second verse. Daz probably edited that second verse off in August of '96 for their West Coast Aftershock project second album.
• Samples :
• The Sequence - "Funk You Up" (chorus interpolation) 

13. Homeboyz (Original) feat. Napoleon (chorus) / Daz - SOLO EDIT by Dante

• 1996/01/09 (?). Released in Still I Rise (1999) with an added new Young Noble verse. The original hasn't been leaked yet but it is said to be very similar to the released version (Daz didn't used to rework his Pac material). It has been said that the OG features Napoleon because we can hear him in the background, and he and Kastro presumably recorded "First 2 Bomb" the same day with 2Pac. If so, it is weired Napoleon didn't give a new verse in Still I Rise... Was there initially another 2Pac verse (his "Me & My Homies" verse could eventually fit) or another guest's verse (Edi, Mopreme, Daz...) ? Maybe the song was simply left unfinished like many other Thug Pound tracks with nothing else that an empty instrumental part (like "First 2 Bomb"), eventually waiting for an undefined guest, what could explain why only Young Noble gave a verse in the retail version.
• Samples :
• Rose Royce - "You're a Winner" (drums, bassline interpolation) 
  

14. Trump Tight by Big Syke, Kurupt & Kadafi / Kurupt

• 1995/12/14 (?). Kadafi says "Young Thugs", "Outlaw Immortalz" and "Thug Life" at the end of the song (so from late 95 - early 96, before Syke left Death Row). Probably recorded for the Thug Pound project. The music of this track will be re-used for "Ginseng Power/Coast II Coast/Thug Nigga" in One Nation.
  

15. Outlaw Immortalz feat. Kadafi, Hussein, Edi & Big Syke / Sam Sneed

• 1995/10/20 - ? (new mix). Included in the first Thug Life Volume 2 tracklist but not in the second one, so 2Pac very probably transferred the track to Thug Pound. Sam Sneed's beats were then very appreciated, fitted to the project and it was another Death Row All Star collab. Gonzoe of Kausion said he recorded another version with him, which could have been recorded in January, like his other features for Thug Pound project, or later in May or July for a new Outlawz version, in replacement of Big Syke (Gonzoe appears in Ghetto Starz guests list).
  
• Samples : 
• Outkast - "Funky Ride" (vocals) 

16. First 2 Bomb feat. Napoleon, Kadafi & Edi / Daz

• 1996/01/09 (?). Remixed by Daz on Makaveli & Dillinger (1999). 2Pac says "One love to my homeboyz" and repeats "Outlaw Immortalz" in the hook like an anthem (so it is probably the Reel so titled, from the same day than "Homeboyz"). The song being produced by Daz and not listed in Thug Life 2 tracklist, it clearly fits to this project. It has many similarities with "Dumpin" beat, and with Pac's verse in it, also with his lyrics in "Grab The Mic" and "He Vs. She" recorded the 12th and the 13rd of January. The song is kind of unfinished or has a space at the end for another verse.
  
• Samples :
• The Sequence - "Funk You Up" (sound effects interpolation)

17. This Life I Lead feat. Gonzoe, Dogg Pound & Nutt-So / Johnny J

• 1996/01/18. Remixed in Better Dayz (2002). Initially, people tend to think that it has been recorded with some other Makaveli & Dillinger tracks like "Don't Fall Asleep" in April/May of 96. But Gonzoe confirmed that he recorded the song in January, like indicated by the Reel. Johnny J is credited as the producer in Better Dayz but the kind of beat is strangely close to other Daz material aimed for Thug Pound project. Is it a mistake or like in "World Wide MOB Figgaz", or did Johnny J try a new kind of doggish sound especially for that project ?
  
• Samples : 
• Al B. Sure ! - "Naturally Mine" (melody)
  

18. Bad Boy Killers (Interlude) feat. Danny Boy / Kurt Kobane

• 1996/01/22 (?). It was said to feature 2Pac, Outlawz maybe Big Syke & DeVanté Swing of Jodeci, but nothing says if such a version exists somewhere.... DeVanté Swing has produced songs for Danny Boy, and "No More Pain" for 2Pac but he probably didn't do anything for this one. The title/concept of the song was very clearly given by 2Pac (saying it in the intro to "First 2 Bomb") so the song was supposedly made for him. Danny was a part of the Thug Pound project (being given a nickname by 2Pac, cf. Thug Life Volume 2). Kurt Kobane was producing material for him like "Welcome 2 Death Row" and also produced "M.O.B." for 2Pac and Thug Life. They presumably presented a rough beat and chorus circa the end of January but the project was already scrapped and 2Pac may have told Danny Boy to record a chorus for "Lil Homies" instead (the 22nd of January). Various mixes of the song - unfortunately without any 2Pac/Outlawz verse - appear in Danny Boy's archives. The 6th of February, the song was already given to Death Row inmates WFO and Slaughter (a male voice sounding like Malik and a female voice), Danny Boy giving new vocals "Bad Boy Killaz, Bad Boy Killaz...", the beat receiving a new mix the 5th of March, being completed the 16th. The only missing mix to these archives is the empty rough instrumental with just his vocals "give me one more chance, Death Row give me one more chance", probably the only state presented for Thug Pound.
  
• Samples :
• EPMD - "You're A Customer" (bassline interpolation)

BONUS TRACKS

. St. Ides Malt Liquor Commercial (Long Version) feat. Snoop Dogg / DJ Pooh & E-Swift

• 1996/01 (?). Commercial for a well known malt liquor. 2Pac had already done one in 93. There are two versions of this commercial : a long radio version (50'') and a short video one (40''). When was it recorded ? It refers to "Blueberry", a song planned to be in LBC album Haven't U Heard ?, planned to be released around late 95 - beginning of 96 but finally shelved around that time because of a dispute between Snoop and Lil C-Style about royalties. So Snoop maybe wouldn't have rapped these lines about the song after that.

. Me & My Homies (Promo Mix) feat. Nate Dogg & Nanci Fletcher / Soopafly  

• 1996/01/09 (?) - 02/29 (?). Recorded for Nate Dogg's first album : G-Funk Classics vol. 1 released in 1997. It has been said Nate Dogg firstly recorded his version in 1995 and 2Pac added his verse in 1996, but we have no proof of that. Pac's verse mentions "I ain't shit without my homeboys" and could have been taken from the original of "Homeboys" recorded in January of 96. That verse could have been replaced by Young Noble in the released version in Still I Rise. Either 2Pac recycled a verse of it because Thug Pound project was scrapped. Or, that verse could have simply been written and recorded around that same time inspired by a similar concept.